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Dev blog: New Eden Open $10.000 Tournament

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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#121 - 2012-09-28 18:05:49 UTC
Angmar Udate wrote:
So if I understand right:
Ban: Oneiros, Ban: Guardian - you effectively banned armor fleets?

45 minutes before match start is really little time to switch and modify your concept.


Obviously teams will have to have multiple different setups practiced and ready to go, or some other way to handle substituting equal-ish ships into their game plan.

You know about the possibility now - start planning so you can execute easily within 45 minutes.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Servant's Lord
The Untraceable
M A R A K U G A
#122 - 2012-09-28 18:17:27 UTC
CCP Bro wrote:
Servant's Lord wrote:
So is the plex "bidding" a deposit, or a onetime payment?

IE if I throw up 35 plex, will I get my plex back at the end win or lose, or do they just disappear once they're contract to CCP Alliance Char?


You will only be required to part with your PLEX if you win a spot. Meaning that you don't pay the PLEX until you have won the auction for the spot.


You mention the reason for 20 plex being "to ensure that bidding teams are serious for a good tournament."

Why wouldn't a simple deposit be enough?

Considering the laughable value of the prizes(the only thing special about them is the fact that it's RL cash - 6k$=200b or so....AT winners get 50 run BPCs for AT ships valued on the CHEAP end at 20b...1tril easy).

You are giving out 10k in prizes, along with a "free" 4th place prize of isk(you can literally generate this out of nothing, and considering the small amount it won't do anything to the ingame economy). Assuming each winning team puts up on average 25 plex you're looking at something in excess of $12k.

Why are we the players being forced to fund our own prizes, DESPITE you making a profit of $2k AND advertising profits?

This doesn't seem to make much sense to me - it seems more like a blatant money grab.

I'm all for more tournaments and am very interested in bringing this sort of stuff to eve(I regularly livestream on Own3d myself), but I find the non-refundable entry bid to be nothing but a money grab rather than the "legitimacy guarantor" you appear to be playing it off as.

-Servant's Lord
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#123 - 2012-09-28 18:35:55 UTC
cBOLTSON wrote:



Mate sit back and relax.

You really think everyone will be paying ccp to buy plex? Of course there will be a lot, but some will use in game isk. So that 19k figure you give is unrealistic.

Also, like you admit some would pay just for the sheer fun / fame of it. Im just happy they are promoting eve at all.

Btw 8man teams right? So you assume all eight people will pull in together to get the plex :P thats not unmanageable for a hell of a lot of players.

If you are determined you will get into this.


The $19,000 or more that this is aimed at generating will come from PLEX. It doesn't matter who pays for it or not, someone paid for it somewhere. I'm not saying that the tournament players will pay out of pocket for this. It seems like this is like those people that don't realize PLEX is paid for by other players...


Thanks to another reference in another post :: http://www.d-esports.com/7028/eve-alliance-tournament-x-second-32-slots-almost-filled-no-hydra-or-outbreak/

Quote:
Adding the 320 from the lottery, the total PLEX spent comes to 1289. Just over £19k in value, with an average of £307/team across the 63 entries.


19,000 pounds is a lot more like $23,000. So, my thoughts as to the estimated value of a tournament to the player base isn't that far off (i dont know what the player perceived value of this tournament will be, but given that 10 of the teams are under the 20 plex mark...)



Where I am.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2012-09-28 18:47:19 UTC
it is kinda sad that there is no special ship as a prize :(

especially with the v3 project, I heard it is extremely easy compared to the past to make a custom skin once the pre work is done. And with fozzie bringing ship balancing to a whole new level, it can't be difficult to find some interesting bonus ideas
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2012-09-28 18:50:44 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
it is kinda sad that there is no special ship as a prize :(

especially with the v3 project, I heard it is extremely easy compared to the past to make a custom skin once the pre work is done. And with fozzie bringing ship balancing to a whole new level, it can't be difficult to find some interesting bonus ideas


We're going to be keeping the different tournaments separate. The ships will still be part of the alliance tournament, while this format will have other goodies.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#126 - 2012-09-28 18:52:27 UTC
This will be fun to watch. The bans are a clever innovation. With each captain able to ban two ships, you can wipe out some entire ship classes if so inclined.

I'm surprised that it's even remarkable that CCP hopes to bring in more money than they pay out. That's how lotteries and raffles raise money, as well. After expenses, it probably won't even be that much.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
OldDirtyBasterd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-09-28 19:11:47 UTC
Will this tournament take place after the winter expansion or before it ?!? If so would t1 logi go under cruiser 7 points Vs the full 13 points.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#128 - 2012-09-28 19:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Akrasjel Lanate
OldDirtyBasterd wrote:
Will this tournament take place after the winter expansion or before it ?!? If so would t1 logi go under cruiser 7 points Vs the full 13 points.

Before

Quote:
Saturday, November 17 and Sunday November 18

Saturday, November 24 and Sunday, November 25

Saturday, December 1 and Sunday, December 2

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#129 - 2012-09-28 19:16:15 UTC
Servant's Lord wrote:
CCP Bro wrote:
Servant's Lord wrote:
So is the plex "bidding" a deposit, or a onetime payment?

IE if I throw up 35 plex, will I get my plex back at the end win or lose, or do they just disappear once they're contract to CCP Alliance Char?


You will only be required to part with your PLEX if you win a spot. Meaning that you don't pay the PLEX until you have won the auction for the spot.



I'm all for more tournaments and am very interested in bringing this sort of stuff to eve(I regularly livestream on Own3d myself), but I find the non-refundable entry bid to be nothing but a money grab rather than the "legitimacy guarantor" you appear to be playing it off as.

-Servant's Lord


Entry fee - not entry to bid. Go try the reading thing again. You pay only if your bid is one of the 32 winners.

TBH, I think a lot of you here are ignoring all the costs involved in running this tournament, just to ***** and moan about how the prizes aren't as good as the Alliance Tourney.

Guess what - THIS ISN'T THE ALLIANCE TOURNEY.

That's the big one, with the big prizes and stuff. This one is *A* tournament, with cash prizes, that anyone (rich enough) can enter, and you can cherry pick your teams.

Running a live broadcast requires just a wee bit more investment in time, people and equipment than your average Youtube video or roaming live feed. Nobody puts on tournaments for free - not Little League Baseball, not e-games, not football (whatever version), not the Olympics and not autosports. It's all done for love of the game(s) and mostly for money.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Celebris Nexterra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-09-28 19:16:54 UTC
I agree with several other posters that it is important whether or not this tourney will take place before or after the winter expansion (ship balancing and all that). But the tourney will start in less than 2 months from this day, and I would imagine the winter expansion will not be out yet, especially considering it can still be called the "winter" expansion in Jan and Feb.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#131 - 2012-09-28 19:47:42 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
This will be fun to watch. The bans are a clever innovation. With each captain able to ban two ships, you can wipe out some entire ship classes if so inclined.

I'm surprised that it's even remarkable that CCP hopes to bring in more money than they pay out. That's how lotteries and raffles raise money, as well. After expenses, it probably won't even be that much.


Our tournament fees aren't really made to bring in money, as much as "let's cover our costs".
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#132 - 2012-09-28 19:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
CCP is having a PLEX sale! Stock up to fund your bid!

Edit: I wonder if there are any very wealthy individuals looking at this as a way to cash out ISK. That is:

Buy PLEX with ISK.
Use it to fund a team, with the proviso that they get 50% of any winnings.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-09-28 20:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kumq uat
One thing I will suggest is that if you plan to hold these tourneys more often as a type of e-sport, especially if you plan a final round that is a best of five, etc, that you not run the tourney on Tranquility but instead create a shard for it. You can still run the actual AT on Tranq and all of that but if you plan on doing these often enough and to have so many rounds of spaceship explosions it makes sense to have your teams running on a different server. Just throwing my two cents out there.
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2012-09-28 20:38:10 UTC
Fail post
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#135 - 2012-09-28 21:16:41 UTC
After reading through the thread I just have to say that War Kitten absolutely gets it. If you have not read her posts then please do.

We in the tournament team are breaking new ground and EVE tournaments are now monetized. This is a big deal. Who knows how far we can bring this, and believe me, we have big plans.

We understand that EVE, probably more than most MMO's, is the ultimate competitive game. EVE tournaments are not about having the best gear but having the best strategies, the best set ups and, most importantly, the best players. With a solid team set up you guys can potentially start looking at corporate sponsorships in the future and can compete with other eSports.

We are putting our toe in the water with this tournament but everyone in CCP concerned with tournaments understand how big this can become and we want you to come along and be part of it.

Our goal is to grow tournaments to a whole new level and incorporate every class of player possible. This is not going to happen today or tomorrow but I can assure you that we are planning to include as many players as possible.

Let's host this tournament and see how it goes and see how we can make tournaments bigger and better in the future and how we can include lots more players.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#136 - 2012-09-28 21:24:55 UTC
I like money.

This is a big step for EVE, very exciting. Our little baby is all grown up!

Also, someone recruit my broke ass lol

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2012-09-28 21:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
CCP Navigator wrote:
We in the tournament team are breaking new ground and EVE tournaments are now monetized. This is a big deal. Who knows how far we can bring this, and believe me, we have big plans.


Perhaps the next step is to have companies sponsor this event instead of players with plex. We already had advertising in the last tournament, just not for the sponsor but alliances instead.

20k (or whatever this costs in plex) is pocket change for a big hardware manufacturer.

Everyone benefits that way: EVE players get more amazing tournaments, the game gets good publicity and esports flair which mans more subscribers, and the sponsors get good advertising.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2012-09-28 22:57:43 UTC
CCP Bro wrote:
Yes there will be commentators but they will be from CCP.
I hope the man formerly know as Raivi (CCP Fozzie) will be commentating. He was the best damned player commentator you've had.
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#139 - 2012-09-28 23:00:47 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
CCP Bro wrote:
Yes there will be commentators but they will be from CCP.
I hope the man formerly know as Raivi (CCP Fozzie) will be commentating. He was the best damned player commentator you've had.


Then you are totally in luck Big smile
Servant's Lord
The Untraceable
M A R A K U G A
#140 - 2012-09-28 23:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Servant's Lord
War Kitten wrote:
Servant's Lord wrote:
CCP Bro wrote:
Servant's Lord wrote:
So is the plex "bidding" a deposit, or a onetime payment?

IE if I throw up 35 plex, will I get my plex back at the end win or lose, or do they just disappear once they're contract to CCP Alliance Char?


You will only be required to part with your PLEX if you win a spot. Meaning that you don't pay the PLEX until you have won the auction for the spot.



I'm all for more tournaments and am very interested in bringing this sort of stuff to eve(I regularly livestream on Own3d myself), but I find the non-refundable entry bid to be nothing but a money grab rather than the "legitimacy guarantor" you appear to be playing it off as.

-Servant's Lord


Entry fee - not entry to bid. Go try the reading thing again. You pay only if your bid is one of the 32 winners.

TBH, I think a lot of you here are ignoring all the costs involved in running this tournament, just to ***** and moan about how the prizes aren't as good as the Alliance Tourney.

Guess what - THIS ISN'T THE ALLIANCE TOURNEY.

That's the big one, with the big prizes and stuff. This one is *A* tournament, with cash prizes, that anyone (rich enough) can enter, and you can cherry pick your teams.

Running a live broadcast requires just a wee bit more investment in time, people and equipment than your average Youtube video or roaming live feed. Nobody puts on tournaments for free - not Little League Baseball, not e-games, not football (whatever version), not the Olympics and not autosports. It's all done for love of the game(s) and mostly for money.


Please re-read my comment before making ill informed counterarguments.

I state quite clearly that the 32 winning bids @ 25 plex each(assuming an average bid of that).

Let me show you this in simple math, using small words.

32 winning teams. 25 plex per time. Assume $15 per plex(it is in fact more).

32*25*15=12,000

Now onto your next statement - if this is in fact just *A* tournament why is the minimum bid literally twice as much as THE ALLIANCE TOURNAMENT *trumpets and fanfare*?

I could perhaps understand if it was only 10 plex minimum bid (like the alliance tournament), but asking for a minimum bid of DOUBLE the amount for what is apparently the premier tournament, while offering around 1/5 the overall prize value(more like 1/10 as a total of 100 AT ships are given out) seems rather laughable.

CCP's stated reason was "What we do have is a cost of entry in order to ensure that those who are stating they wish to compete have enough skin in the game to take it seriously."

I can understand making people put up 20+ plex as a "cost of entry" that is completely nonrefundable should any shenanigans occur and to keep the riff-raff out, but simply taking that and keeping it does nothing to lend credibility; instead it makes this come off to informed individuals as some sort of bizarre money grab.

If us EVE players wanted to put up the cash for our own tournament, we would. I know of several individuals wealthy enough to host a tournament like this with the same rules - only difference being THEY would make the advertising money and extra $2k value in isk/plex, rather than CCP.

Your third point - that is correct, but it is funded by companies paying for advertising, or the individuals putting it on take value in the publicity it brings them or their product.

In the Olympics, Michael Phelps isn't told he needs to pay for the part of the swimming pool he wants to swim in out of pocket - that's paid for by the host country for the Olympics, often with funds generated from sponsors such as Panasonic for instance.

-Servant's Lord