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Dev blog: New Eden Open $10.000 Tournament

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CCP Bro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#101 - 2012-09-28 17:21:54 UTC
Servant's Lord wrote:
So is the plex "bidding" a deposit, or a onetime payment?

IE if I throw up 35 plex, will I get my plex back at the end win or lose, or do they just disappear once they're contract to CCP Alliance Char?


You will only be required to part with your PLEX if you win a spot. Meaning that you don't pay the PLEX until you have won the auction for the spot.

eSports Coordinator for the EVE Universe & Community Specialist
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#102 - 2012-09-28 17:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Djakku wrote:

Are Hydra banned from this aswell?


At this time everyone with an active player account is eligible.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#103 - 2012-09-28 17:24:44 UTC
Djakku wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
why is it always big alliances that can only get into these and not people who do small gang PvP that don't have huge corps/alliances and 10bil isk lying around to enter the auction


This tournament has nothing to do with alliances whatsoever. What we do have is a cost of entry in order to ensure that those who are stating they wish to compete have enough skin in the game to take it seriously. Over the long term we would definitely like to have alternative methods of doing so but we simply don't have any other option at this time.


Are Hydra banned from this aswell?


Hydra doesn't exist as far as this tournament format is concerned as was stated in the post you quoted.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#104 - 2012-09-28 17:26:24 UTC
Eiluvial wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
Quote:
Once you have a player character on a team, attempting to place another character on a second team will result in disqualification for both of those teams. For example, if you join team A with one of your accounts and then attempt to join Team B with a second account, both teams will be disqualified.


Can't this be abused to tears or am I missing something?


Potentially it could, however, the severity of penalties applied to player accounts who participate in this action should not be ignored.

Fake edit: They are severe.


The spies will be burned anyway, and banning those accounts isn't really a problem.

Are you saying the main accounts will be affect as well? Punishment to the person and not the chars? Metagaming now an bannable offense? Sad


Attempting to cheat in the tournament is yes. Was that not clear in the rules?

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#105 - 2012-09-28 17:27:39 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Its $6000 for the winning team so its worse then you have been saying lol



Right, top prize is $6,000. Got the big $10k in my head.

Went back and fixed it, thank you.

$10,000 is split 3 ways among the first 3 teams. That is before taxes.

Read the devblog Cool.


I did. Just a slip.

It only works the argument in my favor.


All this amounts to is paying 30B ISK to "have fun" - the real money value is insignificant. And that means the only people that have expendable money to burn are the null sec alliances. And the only people that will get "Sponsored" by anyone with money are going to be A-Teams that already have an ATX track record.

As someone pointed out, on the ATX Auction, they could barely even sell the last slot. So what makes you think you can do the same thing here?

Sorry, CCP has totally overestimated the amount of Free ISK moving around that would go towards a project like this. You are going to have a hard time filling 32 slots totaling a minimum of 480 Billion ISK, when there were BIGGER prizes, More ISK, more reputation and better rewards for ATX.


I guess we'll find out who's right when we open the bidding. You can go ahead and preserve this post for further discussion at that time based on fact rather than rampant and silly speculation.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#106 - 2012-09-28 17:29:28 UTC
CCP Bro wrote:


That is a good idea and something that is definitely worth considering. One of the reasons why we are not doing player adverts this tournament is because we want to try limiting the amount of time between matches and maximizing the amount of spaceships blowing up. We will then of course look at your feedback for how that goes and factor that into future decisions.



I understand you have to run a business, but I will point out that MOST sports events make their real money on advertising money, and not off of the players in the tournament. I know you may not have an exact value for the cost of your programs advertising (and has been free, and is an awesome service for free...) - but getting a better idea of that would be in your benefit, and would ease some of the... financial burdens on the "players" (read, not 20B isk to enter the tournament).

I am sure that own3DTV made a killing on having 5-10,000K viewers (which I'm sure is huge for an eSports event) on advertising.

I would like player advertising to be free whenever possible, but in cases such as this, where you want to limit your advertising time, I'm just putting that out there. :)

Also, I'm sure own3dtv wants advertising time, so you're gonna need SOME slow time in between (or it's going to all be ads in between...)

Where I am.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#107 - 2012-09-28 17:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I guess we'll find out who's right when we open the bidding. You can go ahead and preserve this post for further discussion at that time based on fact rather than rampant and silly speculation.


We'll see indeed.

But I prefer you don't call my assessment rampant and silly speculation considering it has at least one other data plot of information to base the assessment on.

Where I am.
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-09-28 17:32:23 UTC
I have read the Dev blog now as well as CCP feedback and I have to say it sounds like you have it spot on. You have covered all the bases as far as I can see.
The system might not be perfect, still I cant wait for this tournament. I will enjoy watching it if I don't enter myself somehow.Big smile

I think you really need to pick the right commentators though Blink

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
CCP Bro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#109 - 2012-09-28 17:36:06 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Bro wrote:


That is a good idea and something that is definitely worth considering. One of the reasons why we are not doing player adverts this tournament is because we want to try limiting the amount of time between matches and maximizing the amount of spaceships blowing up. We will then of course look at your feedback for how that goes and factor that into future decisions.



I understand you have to run a business, but I will point out that MOST sports events make their real money on advertising money, and not off of the players in the tournament. I know you may not have an exact value for the cost of your programs advertising (and has been free, and is an awesome service for free...) - but getting a better idea of that would be in your benefit, and would ease some of the... financial burdens on the "players" (read, not 20B isk to enter the tournament).

I am sure that own3DTV made a killing on having 5-10,000K viewers (which I'm sure is huge for an eSports event) on advertising.

I would like player advertising to be free whenever possible, but in cases such as this, where you want to limit your advertising time, I'm just putting that out there. :)

Also, I'm sure own3dtv wants advertising time, so you're gonna need SOME slow time in between (or it's going to all be ads in between...)

The major issue we ran into when playing ads on both platform simultaneously (player ads and other ads) was getting the timing right. This caused some players concern and we got feedback on that. With that feedback in mind we decided to try out a new scheduling format to see if that works better. If it does it can be adapted for future events where we can then incorporate player ads as we have done before. As I said, I like feedback and pointers and this discussion right here is exactly what is needed to help us evolve the tournament format and broadcast structure.

eSports Coordinator for the EVE Universe & Community Specialist
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#110 - 2012-09-28 17:37:35 UTC
Oh hell yea I'm getting in on this action lol.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#111 - 2012-09-28 17:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
It'd be nice if the tools to do this kind of thing could be put in player hands too.

something anchor-able to generate the warp in points and so on.

And fleet level 'you are invited to a tournament fight' stuff. With automatic Sreegsing of ships leaving the range. Auto aggression rights between the fleets

maybe with a lockable gate? Though that's getting into the arena idea, which people dislike.




Just needs the 2 teams, and any spectators :)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-09-28 17:41:15 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Bro wrote:


That is a good idea and something that is definitely worth considering. One of the reasons why we are not doing player adverts this tournament is because we want to try limiting the amount of time between matches and maximizing the amount of spaceships blowing up. We will then of course look at your feedback for how that goes and factor that into future decisions.



I understand you have to run a business, but I will point out that MOST sports events make their real money on advertising money, and not off of the players in the tournament. I know you may not have an exact value for the cost of your programs advertising (and has been free, and is an awesome service for free...) - but getting a better idea of that would be in your benefit, and would ease some of the... financial burdens on the "players" (read, not 20B isk to enter the tournament).

I am sure that own3DTV made a killing on having 5-10,000K viewers (which I'm sure is huge for an eSports event) on advertising.

I would like player advertising to be free whenever possible, but in cases such as this, where you want to limit your advertising time, I'm just putting that out there. :)

Also, I'm sure own3dtv wants advertising time, so you're gonna need SOME slow time in between (or it's going to all be ads in between...)


A couple of things. It may well turn into more something like that when we have more established teams and the brand is out there enough to be able to say to advertisers, "Hey, we can bring in X amount of viewers for your commercial and so we would like to charge you X amount of money for said advertisement." This not only makes CCP more money but will allow them to create bigger cash prizes.

Think of this first round as dipping your toes in the kiddy pool and girding yourself to eventually jump off the high dive. A first step in a series of steps that will lead to bigger things. I know I plan on participating and I am willing to bet there will be more than enough teams to fill the gaps. Should be fun. Hopefully we can find a way to not have the players pay so much once the brand is established while still producing a quality product with good teams.
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-09-28 17:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarina Reid
With all the b and c teams the final will be dull again.
Angmar Udate
#114 - 2012-09-28 17:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Angmar Udate
So if I understand right:
Ban: Oneiros, Ban: Guardian - you effectively banned armor fleets?

45 minutes before match start is really little time to switch and modify your concept.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-09-28 17:50:55 UTC
Katarina Reid wrote:
With all the b and c teams the final will be dull again.


not with the bans. That is an outright brilliant tactic. Should be carried to AT XI

I has all the eve inactivity
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-09-28 17:51:38 UTC
Angmar Udate wrote:
So if I understand right:
Ban: Oneiros, Ban: Guardian - you effectively banned armor fleets?


can still run logi legion/prot :P

I has all the eve inactivity
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-09-28 17:52:22 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Bro wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
Let's look at the idea from the individual to have the PLEX cost split amongst everyone on a team.


SO, you come in with 16 guys (8 mains and 8 backups) who each put down 2 plex each to get 32 plex on the table for the bidding.

That's gonna be around $35 each or 1.2B PLEX at current prices (i'm sure people are buying PLEX already, I am).

To have a chance at splitting EDIT : $6,000 over 16 people, minus the estimated average bidding, which is $544 = 5456 a prize of $341 each. Which, is almost as much as the whole team together put into the pot each. So, a 1 in 32 chance (random draw) to get 10 times your money back.

Go play a lotto, better chance of winning better prizes.

We're not even considering gaming the system to have 10 PL teams in. At which point everyone is gonna get screwed.


http://www.lottogenie.com/html/odds.html

Those look like worse odds to me and you don't get to blow up spaceships!



Not to promote Somer Blink... a service i dislike.

But Somer Blink you have a 1 in 8 chance of winning about 7x your money back. (house always, wins, etc). In theory, you could take 30B ISK and win 210B ISK in Somer Blink, but there would also be another 7 losers along the way. Your odds are dramatically worse, and also involve skill, which means that they're not only giving you a chance, they're weighted odds. So, you have 1 in 32 chance of winning, weighted against a ranking (PL would be one of the highest ranked), so that would put most other teams at a 1 in a 100 chance of winning or better.

On the level of CCP, you're talking about potentially making $19,000 to sell $10,000, and I won't even gander a guess at the agreements between own3dTV and yourselves and wouldn't expect you to make that public, but I'm sure it's a pretty sweet deal if CCP is going to put aside community dev hours to make it happen.


On the topic of blowing up spaceships. I stated earlier...

Quote:
All this amounts to is paying 30B ISK to "have fun" - the real money value is insignificant. And that means the only people that have expendable money to burn are the null sec alliances. And the only people that will get "Sponsored" by anyone with money are going to be A-Teams that already have an ATX track record.


I'm not saying that's not worth it to some people. Sure, it is. But the carrot on the stick is the money to drive the train. It's not actually anything more or less than a carrot on a stick. Am I calling you immoral? No. I just think you're misjudging the situation, and I think you're totally overestimating the amount of ISK people will throw at this. 480B ISK+ isn't something to laugh at, and getting it all in one place and one time is something even the biggest alliances have a difficult time doing.

I can't think of 32 teams that will put this much money at the table. I can think of 8-10.


I want to be positive, I know I've taken a negative slant on this. But I'm not wanting to be negative about your event.

Best of luck, make it happen. I'll make ISKies either way.Pirate



Mate sit back and relax.

You really think everyone will be paying ccp to buy plex? Of course there will be a lot, but some will use in game isk. So that 19k figure you give is unrealistic.

Also, like you admit some would pay just for the sheer fun / fame of it. Im just happy they are promoting eve at all.

Btw 8man teams right? So you assume all eight people will pull in together to get the plex :P thats not unmanageable for a hell of a lot of players.

If you are determined you will get into this.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Mevari Tash-Murkon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-09-28 17:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mevari Tash-Murkon
Quote:
Every tournament we have run in the past has focused on Alliances and has, for better or worse, excluded a vast portion of EVE players who are members of player and NPC corporations and so accordingly we have made the minimum cost entry to this tournament so high that it will exclude all but the larger alliances and corporations anyway. lol!


FTFY.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-09-28 17:55:49 UTC
Eiluvial wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
why is it always big alliances that can only get into these and not people who do small gang PvP that don't have huge corps/alliances and 10bil isk lying around to enter the auction


10bil isk was like the budget for PLs ammo in ATIX, money is one of the last problems you should have when competing seriously for 1st place Lol


In a broader spectrum tournament this would not be the case, and restrictions would be applied such that officer ships or expensively fit ships in general would be kept to alliance tournament. ISK does not dictate skill, and tournaments should be as such if they are supposed to represent the entire playerbase of eve. Of course, enough ISK to consider any subcap ship in a fleet is a reasonable amount, but people already have ships to use currently, not everyone has 10bil to throw into a pit of no return.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Mevari Tash-Murkon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2012-09-28 18:03:50 UTC
Heh... I just looked it up:

Evoke – 20 PLEX
Nulli Secunda – 20 PLEX
Tribal Conclave – 20 PLEX
Shadow Cartel – 20 PLEX
Capital Punishment – 17 PLEX
Bruderschaft der Pilger – 16 PLEX
Get Off My Lawn – 15 PLEX
Wormhole Holders – 17 PLEX
Fluffy Bunny Murder Squad – 16 PLEX
Noir. Mercenary Group – 11 PLEX
Fearless – 10 PLEX

That's what those alliances paid to get into ATX.

http://www.d-esports.com/7028/eve-alliance-tournament-x-second-32-slots-almost-filled-no-hydra-or-outbreak/