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Lowsec incursions break the constellation they're in

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Tamonash en Welle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-09-28 12:36:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You can still do so. Just make something up, like some accident in the coding made it so high-sec incursions didn't have Sansha gatecamps.

Actually my biggest issue with incursions in low and null is that they cynojam, which also prevents jump bridges from working. You can jump into an incursion system on a jump bridge, but not out of one. (Or maybe I got it turned around. It's one or the other).

Let me get this straight: You believe Incursion should be beefed up to make logistics (travel through star gates) in high sec more difficult? While on the other hand you would like to nerf Incursions to make make logistics (travel though jump bridges) in zero sec easier?

I might be interpreting wrong.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#82 - 2012-09-28 12:39:31 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Working as intended.

It's an all-out attack from an enemy force, and NPCs are blocking the points which are strategical assets to control. They're not going to let you free roam without any risk in their contested area. Either use fast ships, come in force to take them out or travel through an alternate route.

If anything, I remember we wanted to do that to all Incursions, even in high-security space. Ah, such sweet, sweet memories. Twisted


Honestly, it would have been nice if you had. The whole idea of the Incursion, is that it is an overwhelming force attempting to take over an area of space with a large fleet; the fact that they just mosey in and simply start nabbing civilians without having any effective logistical command is kind of silly.

My first and only experience of an Incursion was flying through some Highsec systems, looking at the green dots on scanner that indicated the sites and listening to early Incursion Runners as they made a mess of local in a general confusion. It really just gives the impression of free loot to be had by all, and not so much a staggering force dropped on a number of systems with takeover in mind.

If they actually did lock down those systems, maybe the Incursion runners would actually have to fight to gain space and get close to the systems where the real ISK is to be had. Outer systems could effectively deploy forces to the gates as long as the sites hadn't been run in them, so you'd have to run those sites to have a good chance of making the gate.

That's pretty much how that sort of thing is supposed to work. Instead, I found myself popping in and out of the various systems and wandering around in them to see what was happening without the least threat to me or my ship, and then continuing on my way like it was no big thing.

Maybe I'm a little hardcore when it comes to this, but I think the Security level should drop by 0.1 per system, with all systems over 0.6 dropping to 0.6, to indicate the loss of security forces in the area. Gates should be camped, Stations should be camped, and sites should need to be run.

Three systems through gates in any direction from the center of the Incursion should have deployed ships in sites and in camps, and the system on the other side of the gate farthest out, should have a camp on the gate. All gate camps should have off-grid boosting from those sites, as well as potential warp-in support from combat ships in those sites.

Base the number of sites on the number of gates, plus one extra for stations. Add in a roaming Fleet that patrols planets and belts, and has its own booster with it, or relies on Boosts from the Station Camper sites fleet. That Fleet can come to the support of a Station Camp too.

That would be dynamic.
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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-09-28 12:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
Let me get this straight: You believe Incursion should be beefed up to make logistics (travel through star gates) in high sec more difficult? While on the other hand you would like to nerf Incursions to make make logistics (travel though jump bridges) in zero sec easier?

I might be interpreting wrong.


Incursions in lowsec/nullsec disrupt logistics by cynojamming the system and spawning the strong gate rats. Incursions in hisec don't disrupt **** and for the most part, everything stays the same unless you warp to a site.

This is why hisec incursions have always been broken beyond belief and CCP refuses to fix it or remove them outright because it'll upset their poor little carebears who refuse to leave their bubble wrapped cradle where CCP continues giving them thicker knee pads and helmets.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#84 - 2012-09-28 12:40:23 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


If anything, I remember we wanted to do that to all Incursions, even in high-security space. Twisted



...but then you realized high sec is too dumb to handle it and low sec could use some deadly NPC gate camps?



Isn't that kind of backwards? The threats in high sec are npcs and in low/null it's the players?
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-09-28 12:41:54 UTC
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Implying Implications wrote:
WARP CORE STABALISER
And totally gimp everything else on my ship? Great plan.


Yes, because you just HAVE to have a fight in the incursion system and not just go through it and refit at the next system

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-09-28 12:42:39 UTC
Also scrap Crimewatch it's trash tia

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#87 - 2012-09-28 12:49:01 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Working as intended.

It's an all-out attack from an enemy force, and NPCs are blocking the points which are strategical assets to control. They're not going to let you free roam without any risk in their contested area. Either use fast ships, come in force to take them out or travel through an alternate route.

If anything, I remember we wanted to do that to all Incursions, even in high-security space. Ah, such sweet, sweet memories. Twisted


Doit11!

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Tamonash en Welle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-09-28 12:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tamonash en Welle
Andski wrote:
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
...


Incursions in lowsec/nullsec disrupt logistics by cynojamming the system and spawning the strong gate rats.

And is that not how it should be, regardless of system security level, considering CCP Ytterbium's argument?

Asking for a system to be strengthened to penalize others while in the same breath asking for the system to be lessened to make things easier for you is... well, there are a lot of derogatory terms for that kind of mentality.Straight
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2012-09-28 12:55:00 UTC
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You can still do so. Just make something up, like some accident in the coding made it so high-sec incursions didn't have Sansha gatecamps.

Actually my biggest issue with incursions in low and null is that they cynojam, which also prevents jump bridges from working. You can jump into an incursion system on a jump bridge, but not out of one. (Or maybe I got it turned around. It's one or the other).

Let me get this straight: You believe Incursion should be beefed up to make logistics (travel through star gates) in high sec more difficult? While on the other hand you would like to nerf Incursions to make make logistics (travel though jump bridges) in zero sec easier?

I might be interpreting wrong.

Well the incursion gate rats would naturally be easier in high sec, meaning that they wouldn't instantly lock and disrupt your ship like they do in nullsec. As hilariously awesome as that would be.

But anything larger than, say, a battlecruiser would probably not be able to align and warp out in time to avoid getting scrammed and destroyed without a defending fleet. So yeah, poor freighter pilots might actually have some incentive to make friends.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#90 - 2012-09-28 12:56:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
Andski wrote:
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
...


Incursions in lowsec/nullsec disrupt logistics by cynojamming the system and spawning the strong gate rats.

And is that not how it should be, regardless of system security level, considering CCP Ytterbium's argument?

Asking for a system to be strengthened to penalize others while in the same breath asking for the system to be lessened to make things easier for you is... well, there are a lot of derogatory terms for that kind of mentality.Straight


I think you misread that.

edit: actually, I don't know what you're talking about at all, and can't figure out how you got that from Andski's post. Andski was stating that the Incursion level should be the same regardless of Security level; though as far as I'm concerned, with the primary exception of overall difficulty and reward scaling of Incursions by Security level.

How do you get strengthened, penalizing others, lessened for you out of that?
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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2012-09-28 13:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Mars Theran wrote:
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
Andski wrote:
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
...


Incursions in lowsec/nullsec disrupt logistics by cynojamming the system and spawning the strong gate rats.

And is that not how it should be, regardless of system security level, considering CCP Ytterbium's argument?

Asking for a system to be strengthened to penalize others while in the same breath asking for the system to be lessened to make things easier for you is... well, there are a lot of derogatory terms for that kind of mentality.Straight


I think you misread that.

edit: actually, I don't know what you're talking about at all, and can't figure out how you got that from Andski's post. Andski was stating that the Incursion level should be the same regardless of Security level; though as far as I'm concerned, with the primary exception of overall difficulty and reward scaling of Incursions by Security level.

How do you get strengthened, penalizing others, lessened for you out of that?

He's referring to my earlier post, where I said that the only real issue I have with low/null incursions is the cynojamming effect. Of course high sec incursions have this too, but high sec is permanently cynojammed anyway.

The problem of course is that it prohibits an entire class of ship from moving within said constellation.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
BrutalButFair
Fleet of the Damned
#92 - 2012-09-28 13:07:06 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
If anything, I remember we wanted to do that to all Incursions, even in high-security space. Ah, such sweet, sweet memories. Twisted

You can still do so. Just make something up, like some accident in the coding made it so high-sec incursions didn't have Sansha gatecamps.

Actually my biggest issue with incursions in low and null is that they cynojam, which also prevents jump bridges from working. You can jump into an incursion system on a jump bridge, but not out of one. (Or maybe I got it turned around. It's one or the other).


That's the hole point of an invasion. Disrupt as much as you can. And it's not like incursions last for everRoll
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2012-09-28 13:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
BrutalButFair wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
If anything, I remember we wanted to do that to all Incursions, even in high-security space. Ah, such sweet, sweet memories. Twisted

You can still do so. Just make something up, like some accident in the coding made it so high-sec incursions didn't have Sansha gatecamps.

Actually my biggest issue with incursions in low and null is that they cynojam, which also prevents jump bridges from working. You can jump into an incursion system on a jump bridge, but not out of one. (Or maybe I got it turned around. It's one or the other).


That's the hole point of an invasion. Disrupt as much as you can. And it's not like incursions last for everRoll

So you'd be fine then with having incursion rats gate camp highsec, yes?
By that same token CONCORD should stop enforcing the law as they'd have their hands tied responding to the planetary invasions by Sansha forces.
HTFU as they say...

But no, I don't suppose you would ever possibly agree to nerfing the most broken isk faucet in the game... by increasing risk to go along with your reward potential. Oh, the horror!

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Robert De'Arneth
#94 - 2012-09-28 13:58:27 UTC
Dear OP, why on earth are all your assets in one place? You do know you can mirror that setup in many places? Then you keep a fast frig and run between the systems... Not only is a bad idea to have all your eggs in place, it is a terrible idea. You having all your eggs in one place had you come here and make this thread.


Timmy says spread out, Timmy is not worng very often

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-09-28 13:59:12 UTC
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
Andski wrote:
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
...


Incursions in lowsec/nullsec disrupt logistics by cynojamming the system and spawning the strong gate rats.

And is that not how it should be, regardless of system security level, considering CCP Ytterbium's argument?

Asking for a system to be strengthened to penalize others while in the same breath asking for the system to be lessened to make things easier for you is... well, there are a lot of derogatory terms for that kind of mentality.Straight


When did I say I wanted the disruption lessened in nullsec/lowsec?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#96 - 2012-09-28 15:46:01 UTC
Jim Hazard wrote:
you can allways move your ships?
Are you genuinely handicapped? Isn't this issue like...the ENTIRE POINT of this thread? Did you somehow miss that? You can't move your ships when the incursion is in place and you can't move them before it comes because you don't know it's coming.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#97 - 2012-09-28 15:48:08 UTC
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Jim Hazard wrote:
you can allways move your ships?
Are you genuinely handicapped? Isn't this issue like...the ENTIRE POINT of this thread? Did you somehow miss that? You can't move your ships when the incursion is in place and you can't move them before it comes because you don't know it's coming.

Correct, you can't move your stuff to a flood-safe place during a flood. You have to move it before, without knowing for sure if there will be a flood.

It's called preparedness.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#98 - 2012-09-28 15:48:26 UTC
Cede Forster wrote:
just to get this right

you are flying a ship that is bigger then a cruiser

Actually, the Schmaeels managed to tackle (and of course, pretty much insta web and kil) my Enyo. Cruisers? Go figure.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#99 - 2012-09-28 15:52:48 UTC  |  Edited by: The Bazzalisk
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Either use fast ships, come in force to take them out or travel through an alternate route.
Thanks for the worthless input, Ytterbium. Perhaps you should teach me some lessons, because it's clear(to me, at least) that your solutions are either highly impractical or just don't work/make sense.

Fast ships. Armor tanking assault frigates can get caught. I think a vast majority of ships will get caught - certainly all ships which you can actually do anything with that's not cloaky.

Wiping them out from the gates - yes, because I should have to wait for the rest of my alliance to log on to actually move system. How fun.

Travel through an alternate route - this is like telling me to find an alternate route out of my house because Sansha are camping the back and front doors. And the windows. Yes, I will find an alternate route out of my home system - when both adjacent systems are also incursion systems. Great plan. Thanks for your help.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#100 - 2012-09-28 15:54:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Triple post.

I would love to get a 40 man fleet together and go and get the incursion out by force. But it's in low sec, so anyone with half a neuron can see that we're completing the incursion from their journal and come and stop us. GLHF sneaking a 40 man fleet around through Okkamon to complete the incursion with the final sites. Let me know how that goes for you.


You do realize that you are rationalizing away why your failure (and it was your failure) occured, basically trying to "pin" it on some external force.

low sec and null sec incursions have rats on gates, it takes 2 seconds to open your journal and check where the incursions are, there will almost never be more than one anywhere in low-sec.

Stop blaming the game for your failures and lack of attention, everyone else knows to check their journal.
I know the incursion is in my constellation. I'm in a system with no station, a scout is unavailable and I want to go to sleep. Tell me, oracle, what should I do?