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So CCP, any comment on Plex Prices?

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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2012-09-28 08:25:46 UTC
OP,

CCP will be shocked to hear that they earn more money.
Quick send the troops in.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-09-28 08:58:19 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Naturally, this thread will be hijacked by the null sec zealots screaming "nerf high sec!", but does anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre, have any idea why plex prices are out of control, and have numbers to back it up?

I'm not at CCP, and I am a nullsec zealot screaming "nerf high sec!", but I'll answer anyway:

Highsec PLEX'ers driving up the price with easy AFK mining isk. Smile


I hope you're not this boring, predictable and repetitive in real life.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#63 - 2012-09-28 09:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Callduron
Generals4 wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Deryk Kyeld wrote:
PLEX prices are fine, if anything they're valued too low. ISK is so easy to get right now, not counting FW farming.


It's kind of interesting how the plex prices spike after a T5 cashout ... I'm sure FW had nothing to do with it though, and it's all a nullsec conspiracy backed by CCP.


The thing is. FW doesn't create any isks at all. So that isk has to come from somewhere else and as such other people should have less isks for plex's or need to sell more plex's. As such FW can't be an explanation on its own.


The isk is already in the economy. Many Eve players are sitting on large amounts of isk.

What FW does is MOVE the isk. (Same with mining for that matter). When someone who was once poor now becomes isk rich they are quite likely to invest the isk in more accounts.

I think what we're seeing is a lot of isk movement between players. If player A has 5 accounts and earns 2.5b per month and player B has 1 account and suddenly makes 80b, player B may open more accounts but player A is very likely to try to keep all his accounts going even if it means altering his play. He might play longer, switch to a more profitable activity or inject some real world money. So essentially social mobility causes plex inflation, as isk-poor people become isk-rich people more accounts will get financed by plex even if the total amount of isk in the economy doesn't rise. It's an increase in consumer spending without an increase in the money supply.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Jim Hazard
Fury Industry
#64 - 2012-09-28 09:24:49 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
So what exactly does it take now a days to make enough isk to plex a single account with only one character?

Or have we reached a point where the price of plex has rendered that impossible.


It really depends on what you do..... but if you think about grinding the ISK.... 6 hours max.. unless you are really bad at making ISK (and thats even in high sec)
Jojo Booties
#65 - 2012-09-28 09:45:16 UTC
Well I'm not going to pay real money stuff, to play a game, so they best keep those plex things reasonable.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#66 - 2012-09-28 09:59:26 UTC
What CCP could do is put in a bunch of gimmicky ships so people spend isk on them instead of having pockets lined with gold pressed latinum....oh wait wrong currency, isk'es just burning a hole in their space trousers, or how bout this fix, make people pay for game time with AUR seeing as AUR is expensive compared to isk, 7500 AUR or even 10,000 AUR for game time and isk to be for game ships, mods and such, you people sitting on but t loads of plex are gonna get upset and bomb jita monument again when CCP realizes this....hehe.Big smile
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#67 - 2012-09-28 10:00:22 UTC
Problem is, not for everyone reasonable means what it means to you. When rich speculators buy PLEX for profit in future, its reasonable for them to pay even 550m ISK, when for new player this price is too big. The same proces as in real world. All hope for lower prices for PLEX lies in less demand, and that will not happen, certainly.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#68 - 2012-09-28 10:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mai Khumm
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre


I lol'd...

-Edit-
I blame FW more then High sec miners.

My main is in FW, and every corp/faction has the same doctrine "Roll a Minnie/Gal alt, keep systems vulernable, and start farming"
(I'd post on my main, but she's having a "time out" from the forums.)
The Forum Alt
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-09-28 11:00:47 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I'll say one more thing about PLEX... and it's often lost in this debate but I think it's an important point. What is your time worth? If it takes more than 3 hours to make enough for a PLEX it's not worth it even if you are on minimum wage. I got the PLEX I needed to advance my sub a couple of years, but really looking back I'm almost sorry I did. I made a ton of isk doing market scams, and because zero effort was involved it seemed like an easy choice. But really... if I had to actually earn my ISK I'd just pay for the sub. I make more than minimum wage. It's not worth the time to grind. Str8 up yo. I'm here to have fun, and grinding to pay for my account doesn't sound like much fun.


Yeah I'm in the same boat. 15 bucks to me isn't even something I consider money, its nothing. I make that in roughly 10 minutes of work. When I poop at work in the morning, I make a PLEX. So spending a couple of hours grinding something in Eve to earn ISK for a PLEX is silly. I would be more likely to buy PLEX for real cash but I don't have economic problem in game any more than I have out of game so for the most part PLEX is irrelevant to me.

One thing I do like about PLEX is that it sets a real world value for ISK. If nothing else its interesting to do the math when you get blown up or blow someone up.


Do you wear a monocle in RL?
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#70 - 2012-09-28 12:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Kitchner
Callduron wrote:


The isk is already in the economy. Many Eve players are sitting on large amounts of isk.

What FW does is MOVE the isk. (Same with mining for that matter). When someone who was once poor now becomes isk rich they are quite likely to invest the isk in more accounts.



Wot m8?


Have you ever studied economics? Or looked at why people who have studied economics study video game MMOs?

ANY activity in a game that people do for money is creating money. Ratting creates isk out of thin air, mining creates money out of thin air (as resources don't diminish and they don't pay for the right to mine), FW creates money out of thin air, PI creates money out of thin air (though there is a start up cost).

In fact the only money making ways that don't make money out of thin air are:


  • Scamming
  • Hostage taking/ransoms
  • Taking advantage of buying goods and then selling them on
  • Buying materials and then using them to make goods to sell


They are the only activities that move money around. The rest of balancing the EVE economy is done by making sure PvPers are blowing up enough isk worth of ships at the same speed as all those methods that create money out of thin air create it.

Why?

Because if people are spending their money then it reduces inflation. When people have more money they are more willing to spend higher amounts, meaning people can raise the price.

Then of course you need to make sure industry works in such a way that enough players can produce enough goods to meet the demand of the above ship explosions or that raises prices too.

Learning is fun.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2012-09-28 12:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Wot m8?

Have you ever studied economics? Or looked at why people who have studied economics study video game MMOs?

ANY activity in a game that people do for money is creating money.
Eh, no. Maybe you should read up on those topics before telling others to do so.

No activity in a game that people do for money creates money unless… well… it actually does. Ratting creates ISK; mining does not; FW removes ISK; PI removes ISK as well.

The problem is that you're confusing “money” with “value” or “wealth” — they're not the same thing, even though they're usually measured using the same unit (ISK).
Quote:
In fact the only money making ways that don't make money out of thin air are:


  • Scamming
  • Hostage taking/ransoms
  • Taking advantage of buying goods and then selling them on
  • Buying materials and then using them to make goods to sell


They are the only activities that move money around.
Not quite right either. The only activity that moves money around is trading (yes, ransoms are trades as well — you trade the continuing ownership of your stuff and SP for your ISK), and even then, the way EVE is set up, the most commonly used forms of trading actually remove money as well.

That said, since trade is the end use for a large portion of the producers of items, any kind of production is for the purpose of moving money around — not for creating it (because, again, the production itself actually removes money).

Quote:
Learning is fun.
Indeed it is. So let's post this old copy-pasta so everyone can learn:

Faucets:
  • NPC bounties
  • NPC buy orders
  • Agent rewards: Mission rewards, Mission time bonuses, Incursion rewards, Deposit repayment
  • Insurance payout
  • GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods
  • Character creation

Sinks:
  • Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax
  • NPC sell orders
  • NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance
  • NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties
  • Wardecs
  • Sovereignty fees
  • PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices)
  • Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads
  • Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits
  • CSPA Charges
  • Smuggling fines
  • GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement
  • Character deletion


…in particular, let's read and learn that faucet list, and take note of how few activities in the game actually qualify as money generators. Neither mining nor FW create any money. They produce items (in the case of FW through the removal of money) that go onto the market and ensure that money is moved around (while once more removing some of that money in the process).
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#72 - 2012-09-28 12:30:07 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Naturally, this thread will be hijacked by the null sec zealots screaming "nerf high sec!", but does anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre, have any idea why plex prices are out of control, and have numbers to back it up?


That chip on your shoulder about null sec is getting really tired.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#73 - 2012-09-28 12:38:23 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Naturally, this thread will be hijacked by the null sec zealots screaming "nerf high sec!", but does anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre, have any idea why plex prices are out of control, and have numbers to back it up?


How many more paranoid and irrational rants are you going to post before you finally snap and go play Hello Kitty Online?

HTFU or GTFO

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Muul Udonii
THORN Syndicate
Northern Coalition.
#74 - 2012-09-28 12:46:14 UTC
Sarmea Moon wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Naturally, this thread will be hijacked by the null sec zealots screaming "nerf high sec!", but does anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre, have any idea why plex prices are out of control, and have numbers to back it up?

I'm not at CCP, and I am a nullsec zealot screaming "nerf high sec!", but I'll answer anyway:

Highsec PLEX'ers driving up the price with easy AFK mining isk. Smile




It's totally NOT the faction warfare people exploiting at all. It MUST be the miners.



Obviously, CCP has already done something about it, they ran a special on plex prices. I have no doubt they'll do it again, and soon.



I looked at that special. It was terrible, buying smaller non sale numbers of plex actually worked out to be £0.01 cheaper.
Tragedy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-09-28 13:54:36 UTC
I'm always amazed when I see absolutely full on re**rd threads like this. I like to think that if you play eve you have just a bit of smarts and would take interest in how the game works. As in terms like, player driven economy.

I'd better stop reading these forums soon.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#76 - 2012-09-28 14:10:43 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
...
Frankly, I have no real clue ...


No truer words were ever recorded in your posting history.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-09-28 15:01:43 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:


  • Hostage taking/ransoms


    • this is why they should make implant scanner modules and BUFF pirating instead of continuously nerfing it...pirating should be the same importance (happens the same amount) as FW in lowsec, especially in non FW systems

    TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
    Elinarien
    Doomheim
    #78 - 2012-09-28 15:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Elinarien
    This entire thread is pisspoor. It's about time that us cash-rich / time poor high-sec carebears got a better deal through plex sales.

    edit - can't spell
    flakeys
    Doomheim
    #79 - 2012-09-28 15:28:48 UTC
    Gogela wrote:
    Touval Lysander wrote:
    Gogela wrote:

    My advice? If you need PLEX to run your account... buy now. It's going to get crazy.

    I reckon I bought more after reading this than you did Lol

    Yah I PLEXed out both of my accounts to late 2014 a few months ago anticipating this.


    I did that a few years back when price averaged 400 and indicated to only go up up , subbed my acc till june 2014 at one go then Blink

    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
    stoicfaux
    #80 - 2012-09-28 15:38:12 UTC
    Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
    Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:


  • Hostage taking/ransoms


    • this is why they should make implant scanner modules and BUFF pirating instead of continuously nerfing it...pirating should be the same importance (happens the same amount) as FW in lowsec, especially in non FW systems

    Buffing pirates is like buffing the Ebola virus. Yes, in the short term you make it really awesome, but you wind up killing it in the long term (due to a lack of victims/hosts.)

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.