These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

First post First post First post
Author
Retardo Khaan
Slow Motion.
#3321 - 2012-09-28 08:06:31 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Retardo Khaan wrote:
You cannot compare lasors to cruise missiles. You just cant. Because lasors are 10 times better.Try to shoot low sig faction cruiser with cruise missiles and you know why.

For example lvl4 buzzkill mission with cnr. And you know why. But guess its easy to talk when you never tried to use cruise raven yourself.


True, I don't have skills to fly torp/cruise Raven but that's only because I thought I finish my failure before I start training better weapons (meaning I will finish gunnery training first for all sub-cap turrets).

But here's video of Raven, Drake, Myrm doing that mission.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD4GFjLYdP8



You totally missed the point here. Sure its easy when raven doesnt need to deal with smaller stuff himself.

Now find a video where cruise raven solos that mission. It will be long vid btw hour or so.

Description from YT video.

"We have 1 bro who is passive tanking in his Drake, me DPSing in my Raven, and a couple frigs/cruisers who are tearing apart enemy frigs."
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#3322 - 2012-09-28 08:12:54 UTC
Retardo Khaan wrote:

Is it fair that AC cane does 600dps while HAM drake does only around 450dps.. Why not nerf AC dmg by 20%. Also medium lasors should be nerfed as legion dominates NCO's too much.

And btw HAM drake can only fit 2 bcu because it will run out of cpu. Not to mention if you fit 1 TE its going to be only 1 bcu which lowers dps even more. While cane can easily fit 4 gyros and use barrage.


Like I said, EFT messes with people here.

How far is the Cane optimal range? about 3 kilometers? What do you think happens at 20km? Dps is around 300. Guess what happens at 40 km. Dps is 0. Your argument is invalid. Uninstall EFT or learn to dps graph

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Retardo Khaan
Slow Motion.
#3323 - 2012-09-28 08:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Retardo Khaan
Eckyy wrote:
Retardo Khaan wrote:
Well i think cane is OP compared to HAM drake. See the difference yourself fit HAM drake with 2 BCU and T2 missiles then fit AC cane with 4 gyros and hail. Thats the difference. Yes drake has bit more tank but cane has speed.

I am minnie/caldari pilot btw. so i fly canes and drakes.. So would i want cane to get nerfed even more. No i wouldnt but in means of balancing cane needs to be nerfed more. Maybe by dropping its cpu so it cant fit so many gyros...


Why not just compare to a Drake with 0 BCUs and no tank? Roll

Summary:

The Drake CAN in fact fit 3 BCUs (without expensive meta4 mods!), which means...

The Drake does approximately 6% less DPS than the Hurricane and it can do it while sporting 25% more tank than a Hurricane.

The Drake can fit 2 additional midslot ewar mods over the Hurricane, at the expense of one small neut (post-nerf).

The Drake is slower, but is more agile and harder to jam.

The Drake can overheat its tank.



Why do you suggest an unreasonably poor fitting to compare with a 4 gyro (lol) Hurricane? I fail to see how the Hurricane is "OP" compared to the Drake. Should the Drake have higher DPS than the Hurricane while also sporting all of its current advantages?



Im tired of arguing with you. I see your opinion and you see mine. Btw you saying thats poor drake fit but in matter of fact your drake fit pathetic. Short range BC without web n scram and with 2 painters and no LSE. Or some lame t1 modules. I think thats just stupid fit. How are you going to stop that cane who is burning away from you with its speed? And wth your doing with 2 TP's in close range boat. HAM drake doesnt even need painters. And if its fleet few painters in fleet is enough and can be done by minmatar TP bonused boat. Which can offer web aswell tho unless its T1.

Anyways point remains you cant fit 3 bcu in HAM drake unless you make some stupid fit that doesnt make sense. So whatever unista.
Ivian Khorn
PROSPERO Corporation
#3324 - 2012-09-28 08:22:29 UTC
I`v read topic. Someone maybe forgot about rocket specific. They LOSE they damage, if target moving. And you wanna nerf it? Autocannon can deal full they damage about frigs, (and 425 mm too), since rocket dealt 10-15% at they speed.
I`v agree if nerf only range (20-25% maximum).
About artillery - they can shot-out frig BY ONE ALPHA if it flies by line to ship, or it nearly. (With low altitude, but HIGHT speed)
Retardo Khaan
Slow Motion.
#3325 - 2012-09-28 08:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Retardo Khaan
Retardo Khaan wrote:
Eckyy wrote:
[quote=Retardo Khaan]Well i think cane is OP compared to HAM drake. See the difference yourself fit HAM drake with 2 BCU and T2 missiles then fit AC cane with 4 gyros and hail. Thats the difference. Yes drake has bit more tank but cane has speed.

I am minnie/caldari pilot btw. so i fly canes and drakes.. So would i want cane to get nerfed even more. No i wouldnt but in means of balancing cane needs to be nerfed more. Maybe by dropping its cpu so it cant fit so many gyros...


Why not just compare to a Drake with 0 BCUs and no tank? Roll

Summary:

The Drake CAN in fact fit 3 BCUs (without expensive meta4 mods!), which means...

The Drake does approximately 6% less DPS than the Hurricane and it can do it while sporting 25% more tank than a Hurricane.

The Drake can fit 2 additional midslot ewar mods over the Hurricane, at the expense of one small neut (post-nerf).

The Drake is slower, but is more agile and harder to jam.

The Drake can overheat its tank.



Why do you suggest an unreasonably poor fitting to compare with a 4 gyro (lol) Hurricane? I fail to see how the Hurricane is "OP" compared to the Drake. Should the Drake have higher DPS than the Hurricane while also sporting all of its current advantages?



Im tired of arguing with you. I see your opinion and you see mine. Btw you saying thats poor drake fit but in matter of fact your drake fit pathetic. Short range BC without web n scram and with 2 painters and no LSE. Or some lame t1 modules but still without web n scram. I think thats just stupid fit. How are you going to stop that cane who is burning away from you with its speed? And wth your doing with 2 TP's in close range boat. HAM drake doesnt even need painters. And if its fleet few painters in fleet is enough and can be done by minmatar TP bonused boat. Which can offer web aswell tho unless its T1.

Anyways point remains you cant fit 3 bcu in HAM drake unless you make some stupid fit that doesnt make sense. So whatever unista.
Retardo Khaan
Slow Motion.
#3326 - 2012-09-28 08:27:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Retardo Khaan
Uh double quote Oops
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#3327 - 2012-09-28 08:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Guys, seriously stop this discussion about BC 1on1 - there is no question asked about HAM Drake vs those others. It had been tested plenty of times, and with equal skills the HAM Drake loses 1on1 vs Pulse Harbinger and also vs AC Cane, same as it will lose vs AC Myrm. Its not a big loss, but it comes home 4th of 4. Thats just because there is more than DPS/EHP and range, and drone bay is playing a big role there too, where the Drake is clearly worst.

Still thats ok for me, one has to be the best in a competition, and one will be last. If you dont want to be all races the same thats what happens. Balance is, when this ship which has been 4th place of 4 now will be better in another competition, and when it comes to long range the Drake is the winner normally (although there are also range windows where the others could beat it). Apart from that, I would not object to *buff* (!) the medium sized long range turrets a bit, so they could make up from the admitted existing gap to HML in ranges above 30-40 km, where turrets do suck a bit right now. Although they still have insta DPS there, which is a factor even more the longer the range gets. Maybe optimal/falloff has to be adjusted for all of them, or ship bonus should be more specific, like dps/rof bonus on short range, and range/application bonus for long range (but then maybe also for all the same), I dont know. Still there are many ideas which are better than what is planned now. Idea is to have the ships as close together as in short range, but maybe with a different order, and for sure Drake not 4th again.

So basically its about that - people call the Drake OP because they dont like to lose vs one in PvP. They deny to see that in other conditions they would have been the winners. Maybe they should rather think of how to pick their fights, or they could try to counter the one trick pony the Drake is. Instead they choose to QQ. This normally comes from Winmatar and Amarr pilots who have so many combat vessels to choose from in PvP and could simply do something else, unlike Caldari Missile Pilots.

Apart from that - if the Drake was OP, we would see nothing else than Drakes in lowsec. We simply dont, because its NOT OP. The Drake gets used, and it gets used by more than just some, right. But comparing lowsec and highsec war numbers in regards of total ships used the Drake is a neglectable factor. Its there, it can be annoying, but its far from game breaking or OP. The Drake as it is may be a problem in null sec. But there are different possible solutions than just nerf it there ...

And about that argument taking away drones from a Domi - I´d go much more for this example:

"Pilots! With the next patch we take away 25% range and 20% DPS from every working Projectile Turret, and from every working laser system as a nerf, because we could see in our stats how Amarr and Minmatar are so much stronger than Caldari and Gallente in most PvP situations. Ship numbers for Ravens and Hyperions in PvP clearly indicate something hast to be done. Dont worry, we will bring everything back in line with a later coming patch, but first we need to tone down the stats for Projectile/Laser, so we have a solid base to work from. As an addition, defender missiles will now affect also gunnery systems in an attempt to bring weapon types also more in line with each other. But you could use implants and rigs for explosion velocity for missiles, which will help your guns to hit smaller targets better, so its not really that bad! Stay tuned for more news."

Why did I write every working system? Well, becaue basically thats it - HML is the only really working system for missile PvP above frig size. And for Amarr and Matarr all systems except medium long range work, now which do you like better? Having 1 out of 4 options, or 3 out of 4? With plenty of ships to fit them on, or with just 1 working missile-platform *at all*?


Best regards.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3328 - 2012-09-28 08:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Does no-one remember how to fit a HAM Drake? This is like 2007 again. The HAM Drake has PG problems more than it has CPU problems. This is because HAMLs take more PG but less CPU than HMLs. Here's the classic but it requires a 3% PG implant:

[Drake, HAM (implant)]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

677 DPS, 83k EHP (94k EHP overloaded). With Rage getting more damage that should go beyond 700 DPS. This will beat a full-gank Brutix in a straight slugging match at Void optimal, let alone a Hurricane or Harbinger. Noemi Nagano, you are terrible at fitting ships and judging their qualities and should stop posting. And playing.

If you want a T2 disruptor instead you'll have to drop down to a IFFA suitcase, fortunately they're cheap now. Don't fit painters on solo HAM Drakes, and in gang you should have at least 2 webs (think ABing frigates) before a painter is worthwhile. If you don't want to use a 3% PG implant, then you can drop a CDFE for an ACR, but a better solution is to drop a HAML for a HML.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3329 - 2012-09-28 08:29:27 UTC
Eckyy wrote:


The Drake is slower, but is more agile and harder to jam.

The Drake can overheat its tank.



The drake is more agile by .3 seconds which is nothing in game. That's literally .03 seconds faster than the blink of an eye.

Trying to compare their agility is like trying to compare the lengths of hair on a freshly buzzed head.
Besides, minimal warp out time is 12 seconds.

Also, it has 3 points more in sensor strength, which again, equates to almost nothing.

It would take an all skills lvl 5 rook 2 racial jammers to cover either ship.

Now, when it comes to overheating the tanks.

This is almost meaningless because both ships can overheat their tank.

However, you can't overheat rigs, shield power relays/fux coils, or shield extenders. Only resistance modules.

However, the Hurricane using an active repper/booster will be able to get more tank boost through overheating than a drake will get.

Granted, the drake will still have more EHP, but the point still stands.
Overheating a drake's tank is redundant.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#3330 - 2012-09-28 08:30:59 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Retardo Khaan wrote:

Is it fair that AC cane does 600dps while HAM drake does only around 450dps.. Why not nerf AC dmg by 20%. Also medium lasors should be nerfed as legion dominates NCO's too much.

And btw HAM drake can only fit 2 bcu because it will run out of cpu. Not to mention if you fit 1 TE its going to be only 1 bcu which lowers dps even more. While cane can easily fit 4 gyros and use barrage.


Like I said, EFT messes with people here.

How far is the Cane optimal range? about 3 kilometers? What do you think happens at 20km? Dps is around 300. Guess what happens at 40 km. Dps is 0. Your argument is invalid. Uninstall EFT or learn to dps graph


What is the range of the HAM-Drake again? ;) And remember, no falloff, and it will always be way shorter than what EFT says.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3331 - 2012-09-28 08:35:50 UTC  |  Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN
My question still is

Since they're nerfing the tengu before the give me any missile boat with the same effeciveness is pve that the tengu has, then what am I supposed to do for the next 6-12 months or longer?

I realize that the tengu needs nerfed.

I'm all for it.
No problems...

Same with the drake...
Go for it...

However, at least wait, do bc and bs buffs at the same time, then you'll be able to drop all the missile buffs as well.

The drake and tengu get rebalanced/nerfed and I will perhaps be able to fly the raven in missions with the effectiveness of other t1 battleships until Marauder rebalance comes around and I'm able to get into a Golem.

I just really hope they do something to make Marauders the kings of pve they're supposed to be.

Edit...

Oh, and to those that keep saying why wait, someone is getting screwed either way.

Consider this. Nothing will change in game about the drake or the tengu.
Sure, they'll still be hard to kill, but it's been this way for so long already.

So, how about taking on for the team?

Instead of preaching for us to get the nerf now leaving us with nothing to fly, how about you just realize that they're getting nerfed either way and be patient?

This way, you still get the nerf your'e screaming for, and I'll have something to fly until rebalance where that ship is taken away and I get something different...
Sigras
Conglomo
#3332 - 2012-09-28 08:38:22 UTC
Retardo Khaan wrote:
Eckyy wrote:
Retardo Khaan wrote:
Well i think cane is OP compared to HAM drake. See the difference yourself fit HAM drake with 2 BCU and T2 missiles then fit AC cane with 4 gyros and hail. Thats the difference. Yes drake has bit more tank but cane has speed.

I am minnie/caldari pilot btw. so i fly canes and drakes.. So would i want cane to get nerfed even more. No i wouldnt but in means of balancing cane needs to be nerfed more. Maybe by dropping its cpu so it cant fit so many gyros...


Why not just compare to a Drake with 0 BCUs and no tank? Roll

Summary:

The Drake CAN in fact fit 3 BCUs (without expensive meta4 mods!), which means...

The Drake does approximately 6% less DPS than the Hurricane and it can do it while sporting 25% more tank than a Hurricane.

The Drake can fit 2 additional midslot ewar mods over the Hurricane, at the expense of one small neut (post-nerf).

The Drake is slower, but is more agile and harder to jam.

The Drake can overheat its tank.



Why do you suggest an unreasonably poor fitting to compare with a 4 gyro (lol) Hurricane? I fail to see how the Hurricane is "OP" compared to the Drake. Should the Drake have higher DPS than the Hurricane while also sporting all of its current advantages?



Im tired of arguing with you. I see your opinion and you see mine. Btw you saying thats poor drake fit but in matter of fact your drake fit pathetic. Short range BC without web n scram and with 2 painters and no LSE. Or some lame t1 modules. I think thats just stupid fit. How are you going to stop that cane who is burning away from you with its speed? And wth your doing with 2 TP's in close range boat. HAM drake doesnt even need painters. And if its fleet few painters in fleet is enough and can be done by minmatar TP bonused boat. Which can offer web aswell tho unless its T1.

Anyways point remains you cant fit 3 bcu in HAM drake unless you make some stupid fit that doesnt make sense. So whatever unista.

lol you clearly dont know what youre talking about . . . put his drake against your hurricane, i guarentee you'll lose, especially if those two TPs were TDs

the drake has more EHP, the hurricane has more damage, we call this incomperable balance

Also, you said earlier that the use of an ACR is "cheating" that is ridiculous . . . it does make you lose a slot, but a smart person will tell you to do whatever you can to make your fit better . . .

Saying that is cheating is as moronic as saying using meta 4 modules to make your fit work is "cheating" . . . its idiotic because, if that makes your fit better, why not do it?
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3333 - 2012-09-28 08:40:55 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
What is the range of the HAM-Drake again? ;) And remember, no falloff, and it will always be way shorter than what EFT says.


About 25 km, more with fancy flying that forces an opponent to chase you, increasing the relative velocity of the missiles. Now you tell me the turret DPS of a dual-TE Hurricane at 25 km, using RF EMP. You may being to see a problem at this point. Of course, you could use Barrage... but you may want to inspect its damage type.

Of course, you know all this, being an experienced Drake pilot. Lol
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3334 - 2012-09-28 08:42:08 UTC
Serious question though.

Are the TCs and TEs replacing target painters?

Will I be getting sp back?

Not sure it's much, but hey, I need every bit I can get for cross training toward a mach.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#3335 - 2012-09-28 08:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Gypsio III wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
What is the range of the HAM-Drake again? ;) And remember, no falloff, and it will always be way shorter than what EFT says.


About 25 km, more with fancy flying that forces an opponent to chase you, increasing the relative velocity of the missiles. Now you tell me the turret DPS of a dual-TE Hurricane at 25 km, using RF EMP. You may being to see a problem at this point. Of course, you could use Barrage... but you may want to inspect its damage type.

Of course, you know all this, being an experienced Drake pilot. Lol


How will you be able to dictate range like you said you will? You are slower, not more agile and the other pilot can keep you pointed well outside your theoretical fighting range. So what I see is, you will do zero and lose the fight. In your face he will kill you too. So he will either do the first or the second, thats why HAM Drakes die 1on1. Seriously, there have been so many tests. If you want to prove me wrong I can gladly give you contact details for guys who will show you how your Drake gets blown up, personally I lack a bit ingame time atm, else I would do it myself. Comparing EFT stats is not Eve, simple as that. Btw, I like the Drake a lot, and I did the same what you did before, EFT-warrior with it and argue with everyone how OP it is (in those times when everyone said Drakes suck completely for PvP) .. you know what changed since then? One thing, which made the Drake so common in nullsec, and that was the change of DDD from aoe to how it is now. Funny, eh?
Sigras
Conglomo
#3336 - 2012-09-28 08:47:14 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
My question still is

Since they're nerfing the tengu before the give me any missile boat with the same effeciveness is pve that the tengu has, then what am I supposed to do for the next 6-12 months or longer?

I realize that the tengu needs nerfed.

I'm all for it.
No problems...

Same with the drake...
Go for it...

However, at least wait, do bc and bs buffs at the same time, then you'll be able to drop all the missile buffs as well.

The drake and tengu get rebalanced/nerfed and I will perhaps be able to fly the raven in missions with the effectiveness of other t1 battleships until Marauder rebalance comes around and I'm able to get into a Golem.

I just really hope they do something to make Marauders the kings of pve they're supposed to be.

Edit...

Oh, and to those that keep saying why wait, someone is getting screwed either way.

Consider this. Nothing will change in game about the drake or the tengu.
Sure, they'll still be hard to kill, but it's been this way for so long already.

So, how about taking on for the team?

Instead of preaching for us to get the nerf now leaving us with nothing to fly, how about you just realize that they're getting nerfed either way and be patient?

This way, you still get the nerf your'e screaming for, and I'll have something to fly until rebalance where that ship is taken away and I get something different...

wait, you want them to change two variables in the same equasion at once? isnt that how we got Technetium? CCP changing two related things at the same time (moon goo output and component cost for T2 ships) and not fully understanding the implications of either.

No, they need to change one thing at a time very thoughtfully and observe the implications of each change before making another one to the same system or we'll end up in another craptastic deal like Technetium.
Retardo Khaan
Slow Motion.
#3337 - 2012-09-28 08:47:30 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Does no-one remember how to fit a HAM Drake? This is like 2007 again. The HAM Drake has PG problems more than it has CPU problems. This is because HAMLs take more PG but less CPU than HMLs. Here's the classic but it requires a 3% PG implant:

[Drake, HAM (implant)]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

677 DPS, 83k EHP (94k EHP overloaded). With Rage getting more damage that should go beyond 700 DPS. This will beat a full-gank Brutix in a straight slugging match at Void optimal, let alone a Hurricane or Harbinger. Noemi Nagano, you are terrible at fitting ships and judging their qualities and should stop posting. And playing.

If you want a T2 disruptor instead you'll have to drop down to a IFFA suitcase, fortunately they're cheap now. Don't fit painters on solo HAM Drakes, and in gang you should have at least 2 webs (think ABing frigates) before a painter is worthwhile. If you don't want to use a 3% PG implant, then you can drop a CDFE for an ACR, but a better solution is to drop a HAML for a HML.


By buying expensive fitting implant and using T1 modules is only way to fit that. Cane doesnt need fitting implants or T1 modules.

But i do like that fit tho. Makes much more sense than these fits unista linked.
Signal11th
#3338 - 2012-09-28 08:52:14 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
What is the range of the HAM-Drake again? ;) And remember, no falloff, and it will always be way shorter than what EFT says.


About 25 km, more with fancy flying that forces an opponent to chase you, increasing the relative velocity of the missiles. Now you tell me the turret DPS of a dual-TE Hurricane at 25 km, using RF EMP. You may being to see a problem at this point. Of course, you could use Barrage... but you may want to inspect its damage type.

Of course, you know all this, being an experienced Drake pilot. Lol



No offence but I'm pretty much maxed out on skills for both drakes and canes and I'll take a cane over a drake any day of the week for pvp.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Retardo Khaan
Slow Motion.
#3339 - 2012-09-28 08:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Retardo Khaan
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Retardo Khaan wrote:

Is it fair that AC cane does 600dps while HAM drake does only around 450dps.. Why not nerf AC dmg by 20%. Also medium lasors should be nerfed as legion dominates NCO's too much.

And btw HAM drake can only fit 2 bcu because it will run out of cpu. Not to mention if you fit 1 TE its going to be only 1 bcu which lowers dps even more. While cane can easily fit 4 gyros and use barrage.


Like I said, EFT messes with people here.

How far is the Cane optimal range? about 3 kilometers? What do you think happens at 20km? Dps is around 300. Guess what happens at 40 km. Dps is 0. Your argument is invalid. Uninstall EFT or learn to dps graph


EFT warrior. Have you ever heard of falloff or barrage? Do you know that missiles doesnt have falloff? And do you know that cane can pop rifter with barrage from 40k before rifter alings to warp out... Also do you know what happens when HAM drake trying to shoot at 20k? Nothing will happen because my HAM drake has 18k range.

And btw i didnt use EFT but i used in game DPS.

So your argument is invalid. Pls unistall eve and stay in your EFT.
Sigras
Conglomo
#3340 - 2012-09-28 08:54:55 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
What is the range of the HAM-Drake again? ;) And remember, no falloff, and it will always be way shorter than what EFT says.


About 25 km, more with fancy flying that forces an opponent to chase you, increasing the relative velocity of the missiles. Now you tell me the turret DPS of a dual-TE Hurricane at 25 km, using RF EMP. You may being to see a problem at this point. Of course, you could use Barrage... but you may want to inspect its damage type.

Of course, you know all this, being an experienced Drake pilot. Lol


How will you be able to dictate range like you said you will? You are slower, not more agile and the other pilot can keep you pointed well outside your theoretical fighting range. So what I see is, you will do zero and lose the fight. In your face he will kill you too. So he will either do the first or the second, thats why HAM Drakes die 1on1. Seriously, there have been so many tests. If you want to prove me wrong I can gladly give you contact details for guys who will show you how your Drake gets blown up, personally I lack a bit ingame time atm, else I would do it myself. Comparing EFT stats is not Eve, simple as that.

right now, the HAM drake with javelin scourge does damage out to 30.4 km, call it 25 km because this is the real world after all, and that range will go up with a tracking enhancer (if its a 15% buff the new range is 34.95 km so say 30) so . . . maybe with a faction point and heat you'll get out more than 30 km

The best chance the cane has is to close to 0 and use hail + neuts or to run away.