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[Winter] ORE frigate

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Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#201 - 2012-09-27 11:23:20 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Okay that sounds like a realistic use of the ship and it does in fact make it a cool little ore mining ship for those new miners that aren't afraid of a bit of risk but for gas mining, i don't think it's much use.


Heh, yeah, from what I know of sleepers, wouldn't last too long. I have heard that gas sites the rats don't respawn, but idk...
Gas clouds damage you in a WH from what I hear, and some folks complaining about the durability of the ORE frigate. Might be worth using a more durable ship for WH then...Maybe a T2 in the future for the cloud damage? Nothing been said yet.

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2012-09-27 11:40:25 UTC
Rio Bravo wrote:

Gas clouds damage you in a WH from what I hear, and some folks complaining about the durability of the ORE frigate. Might be worth using a more durable ship for WH then...Maybe a T2 in the future for the cloud damage? Nothing been said yet.


Gas clouds don't damage you in W-space but the sleepers sure do Blink, meaning that you are going to need multiple ships/players/alts to mine a gas cloud... This doesn't sound like a newbi activity to me.

But yeah a T2 version that gets a 200% bonus would be awesome and without something like this, there is no progression for the gas miner.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#203 - 2012-09-27 13:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexila Quant
I love this little frigate, I really do, however I do (tentatively) agree with the comments of a few of my corp mates that this ship is no "better" than any cruiser that has 5 turret slots. Perhaps on top of the current boosts to gas, maybe a 2% reduced cycle duration for Gas and Mining Laser per level bonus is in order? Giving it an edge (however slight) over other gas mining solutions and a little more incentive to use it for Ore mining as well.
Terrenor h'qarr
Scifried
#204 - 2012-09-27 14:38:24 UTC
I don't understand the point of having a specialized ship if it's not going to out perform what we use today. IMO it needs an additional turret hardpoint to make it worthwhile. I know it's a frigate, and most people that harvest gas are using cruisers or BC's, but cmon man. You've already got 3 highs in there...just give it that third hardpoint and make everyone happy.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#205 - 2012-09-27 15:21:35 UTC
Terrenor h'qarr wrote:
I don't understand the point of having a specialized ship if it's not going to out perform what we use today. IMO it needs an additional turret hardpoint to make it worthwhile. I know it's a frigate, and most people that harvest gas are using cruisers or BC's, but cmon man. You've already got 3 highs in there...just give it that third hardpoint and make everyone happy.



Because it's /not/ a gas specialist.

It's a replacement for the basic mining frigates. Which happens to also have a bonus to gas.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Arele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2012-09-27 17:26:00 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Terrenor h'qarr wrote:
I don't understand the point of having a specialized ship if it's not going to out perform what we use today. IMO it needs an additional turret hardpoint to make it worthwhile. I know it's a frigate, and most people that harvest gas are using cruisers or BC's, but cmon man. You've already got 3 highs in there...just give it that third hardpoint and make everyone happy.



Because it's /not/ a gas specialist.

It's a replacement for the basic mining frigates. Which happens to also have a bonus to gas.

^^ Hey, someone actually gets it!

This is a NEWBIE FOCUSED MINING FRIGATE, which also happens to have a gas bonus, so that once the newbies move on from this frigate into a barge (which doesn't take long at all), the ship won't be totally useless.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#207 - 2012-09-27 17:32:04 UTC
Which still leaves something of a hole in the gas mining specialty ship slot, since there isn't a mining barge that can fit gas miners.

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#208 - 2012-09-27 17:49:05 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Which still leaves something of a hole in the gas mining specialty ship slot, since there isn't a mining barge that can fit gas miners.



Time for ORE to make a T2 version.


Or possibly, in a more interesting twist, for the Serpentis to release a faction version.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Zam Zumah
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
#209 - 2012-09-27 20:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zam Zumah
While still thinking about this industry, an extremely handy and small change, would be to allow Rorquals to compress gas into liquid form to reduce bulk for transportation.
Infinite Force
#210 - 2012-09-27 20:27:14 UTC
Zam Zumah wrote:
While still thinking about this industry, an extremely handy and small change, would be to allow Rorquals to compress gas into liquid form to reduce bulk for transportation.

"Energon cubes" :)

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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#211 - 2012-09-27 21:19:03 UTC
So many people in here who just have no friggin clue about gas mining.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#212 - 2012-09-27 22:38:34 UTC
Paikis wrote:
So many people in here who just have no friggin clue about gas mining.
Totally. I've never come across a gas cloud before and never found a Ladar site when probing, so I have no clue what to expect. The web pages that say clouds explode might be talking about 1 particular gas type in one particular region. Or they all might explode. Or maybe none of them explode and the myth is there to keep the ignorant away.
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
#213 - 2012-09-28 01:59:23 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Furry Commander wrote:


mining needs some love, this ship will simply require nonstandard tactics and fits to catch, its not toally uncatchable, you are more likely to catch this than a stealth bomber... you could volley it, smart bomb it, faction scram it, or bubble it, off the top of my head. and only one of those requires you to be in nulsec. is it so bad that a Noob in a noncombatant ship actually has a decent chance to dodge PVP when they aren't in the mood for it somplace other than Highsec?


Mining needs some love? Seriously? 2/10 bro, poor troll. (Hint: there was an exhumer buff)

Also it's completely obvious that between the cloak and the frigate speed / agility this ship would have plenty of chances to "dodge pvp" without needing a WCS bonus.



yup mining need some love. the barges are better but this ship will be a hell of a lot more entertaining. this ship cannot kill anybody's conventional solo fit, unless something very strange happens, so the reverse being true is fair. at the same time it makes ninja mining way more viable. i could fit a bantam right now that flies almost identically to this ship. it would mine for **** with only one turret, but i could do it. this ship is just a super bantam. it can ninja and mine well at the same time which is perfectly fine since it isnt going to be able to do much else. why complain about a ship that makes mining almost as fun and risky as flying a stealth bomber?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2012-09-28 06:20:49 UTC
What do you guys think about my idea for a new mod?

Remote harvesting link
Description: a remote projection device that reduces the targets gas harvestor cycle time. Can only be fitted to the ORE frigate.

+ reduces harvestor cycle time by 10%
+ 5km optimal range
+ only one of these modules can be used on the target ship
+ uses mid slot

The key thing is that it creates a reason to mine in a group which would also be a nicer target for hunters.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2012-09-28 13:42:42 UTC
I guess no flaming is a good sign?!

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Infinite Force
#216 - 2012-09-28 15:14:47 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
What do you guys think about my idea for a new mod?

Remote harvesting link
Description: a remote projection device that reduces the targets gas harvestor cycle time. Can only be fitted to the ORE frigate.

+ reduces harvestor cycle time by 10%
+ 5km optimal range
+ only one of these modules can be used on the target ship
+ uses mid slot

The key thing is that it creates a reason to mine in a group which would also be a nicer target for hunters.

I like the idea of having a module to help with gas harvesting, but I wouldn't call it "remote" (e.g. remote armor rep, remote shield transfer, remote sensor booster) -- 'remote' items tend to be the 'help the other ship' types.


In regards to the people asking about "exploding" gas clouds - never seen one personally, and I've harvested all the Ladar site types in WH's. I haven't seen a Ladar site in High/Low/Null, so I can't comment on those.

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http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2012-09-28 15:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Infinite Force wrote:

I like the idea of having a module to help with gas harvesting, but I wouldn't call it "remote" (e.g. remote armor rep, remote shield transfer, remote sensor booster) -- 'remote' items tend to be the 'help the other ship' types.


Yeah that's the point. It's a remote module that boosts another ship meaning that the solo miner would get no bonus but if you and a friend went mining together, you could boost each other.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#218 - 2012-09-28 15:37:14 UTC
The reason for only 2 turrets is to give the ship a utility high slot. 3 turrets would render all existing gas mining setups irrelevant, and that is not desirable. Remember, many players do not have gas harvesting trained to L5. For them this ship is clearly better.

This ship is better at gas mining than a cruiser. It holds more gas, it aligns faster, and it will be cheaper. "Better" does not have to mean "more gas per hour".

Cruisers and BCs used for gas mining still have an advantage for mining those clouds that produce damage. Thus the introduction of this frig does not render all current gas harvesters irrelevant, nor do current gas harvesters render this frig irrelevant.

The +2 WCS bonus: If CCP wanted to make that optional by allowing players to fit them or not as they please AND retain all other capabilities of the current ship they would have to:

Add 2 low slots,
Increase the power grid and CPU to allow for fitting of 2 WCS,
Increase the targeting range and targeting speed to compensate for the side effects of the WCS.

The resulting ship would be overpowered for a frig.

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Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#219 - 2012-09-28 17:11:31 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
If CCP wanted to make that optional by allowing players to fit them or not as they please AND retain all other capabilities

Why should you expect that? The whole point of stabs is that they're a trade-off between functionality and GTFO. As it stands this ship is already quite capable of escaping any random opponent with that insane align time. In fact, purely stock with no modules and skills, this thing has a faster align time than an Ares. In pyfa an Ares at 0 skills starts with an align time of 4.49s, going to 3.03s with all V skills. The ORE frigate will align faster than an interceptor. I would not at all be surprised if you could get it close to 2s after all is said and done.

This thing is already completely safe in low-sec unless you're pants-on-head ******** (or run into a smart-bombing camp) and it will probably be pretty damn slippery in null-sec as well. The +2 warp strength is completely unnecessary at that point. Give the ship an extra low slot so people can fit two stabs if they're willing to make a trade-off and remove the warp strength bonus.

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Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#220 - 2012-09-28 20:05:16 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello folks,

This topic is about the ORE frigate coming out this winter. While its concept art can be seen in the Ship Balancing Summer Update blog and some speculation has already started, time has come to talk about it in details.

Designed as an entry mining ship, it will replace the old 4 mining frigates in the Industry Career Path (the Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas and Burst). Compared to them, it has a much improved mining output, capacitor reliance and mobility, while having a decent 5000m3 ore hold. Its purpose is to be a fast hull capable of mining in hostile space (even if the current value of high-sec ores defeats this quite a bit, but that's another problem). It also serves as a gas harvester, a profession that was lacking love until now. With its +2 warp core strength bonus, it should stand a fair chance of doing its job in low-security space without being instantly tackled and killed.

It also comes with a brand new skill, mining frigate, rank 2. Further down the drain we will change mining barge skill requirements to need mining frigate at 4, but not for winter - we'll most likely do that at the same time as the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skill changes to minimize training issues and complications. Again, since its the entry ship for mining, expect the market price to be low.


Mining frigate skill bonuses:
+5% to mining yield per level
+5% to gas harvesting yield per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 1 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 45 PWG, 240 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.6 / 1200000 / 4.04s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 15km / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 4 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40
Cargo capacity: 50
Ore hold: 5000


Constructive comments are welcome Pirate

Could you elaborate for which usage you intended for the 3rd high slot?
I would see cloak but still would be interested in your idea behind