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CCP Sreggs, can you catch this?

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1 - 2012-09-27 16:33:35 UTC
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120926133235.htm

Apparently bots can now fool humans in PvP games into believing they are humans. If such a bot was used to control the client, would CCP be able to detect it and ban it? I hope so. I know CCP Sreeg's methods are many and varied. Not just behavior, but also results. That is looking for "patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play".

But.....are CCP efforts sufficient? Id hate to think that in some future time the only way you could access an on-line game is to be at a gaming house where an actual guard watches you to insure you are the only thing controlling the game.

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Jim Era
#2 - 2012-09-27 16:36:22 UTC
:O

Wat™
Senshi Hawk
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-09-27 16:50:48 UTC
Humans can be just as good as bots. They clearly haven't seen how much faster and more efficient a pilot becomes when he needs to hurry up and get home so he can take a bio break.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-09-27 16:55:05 UTC
If a person uses a bot to pvp, would that make it pve?
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#5 - 2012-09-27 17:01:22 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
If such a bot was used to control the client, would CCP be able to detect it and ban it? I hope so. I know CCP Sreeg's methods are many and varied. Not just behavior, but also results. That is looking for "patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play".

The bot mentioned would never work for a game like EVE. EVE botters are greedy sons of bitches and will leave the bot logged in and running 23.5/7. No matter how human-like the bot acted, logged-in time would be the tell. To have a truly human-like EVE bot you'd have to have it become disinterested for a week and just skill up, and then play four ~ six hours a day solid for a week or two, then back down to an hour or two every night.

In short, you'd have to randomize the logged-in time, thus eliminating the entire reason for having a bot in the first place.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#6 - 2012-09-27 17:01:39 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120926133235.htm

Apparently bots can now fool humans in PvP games into believing they are humans. If such a bot was used to control the client, would CCP be able to detect it and ban it? I hope so. I know CCP Sreeg's methods are many and varied. Not just behavior, but also results. That is looking for "patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play".

But.....are CCP efforts sufficient? Id hate to think that in some future time the only way you could access an on-line game is to be at a gaming house where an actual guard watches you to insure you are the only thing controlling the game.

I would say this: The more bot-like an activity is (repetitive, predictable), the more difficult it will be to catch the bots.

MinerBumping.com
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#7 - 2012-09-27 17:08:49 UTC
The hell with making this a bot make this the AI in eve. EVE is real.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#8 - 2012-09-27 17:10:29 UTC
James 315 wrote:

I would say this: The more bot-like an activity is (repetitive, predictable), the more difficult it will be to catch the bots.


Exactly.
Undock > bookmark > target > cargo full > dock > unload > repeat.
EvE produces bots.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-09-27 17:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Vincent Athena wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120926133235.htm


This is about programming NPC AI to be more human.

NPC AI is entirely different than bot AI. Bot AI has to go through a UI on eve to function correctly, which is harder to make more human without making it inefficient. NPC AI's goal is to be "a fair fight", not "efficient". Bot AI's goal is to be efficient in making ISK, not "fair". Thus, making a bot more human only helps to an extent, overdoing it would make botting inefficient and not really worth it.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#10 - 2012-09-27 17:16:11 UTC
Interesting article, thanks for the heads up!

I would say ... yes he can catch this, because this is EVE, not Unreal Tournament Pirate

The logs would show the WSAD keys being spammed!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-09-27 17:18:34 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
If a person uses a bot to pvp, would that make it pve?


bvp

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-09-27 17:20:24 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Bot AI's goal is to be efficient in making ISK, not "fair". Thus, making a bot more human only helps to an extent, overdoing it would make botting inefficient and not really worth it.


If i was a botter, i'd rather have an inefficient undetectable bot than an efficient detectable one.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#13 - 2012-09-27 17:20:36 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120926133235.htm


This is about programming NPC AI to be more human.

NPC AI is entirely different than bot AI. Bot AI has to go through a UI on eve to function correctly, which is harder to make more human without making it inefficient. NPC AI's goal is to be "a fair fight", not "efficient". Bot AI's goal is to be efficient in making ISK, not "fair". Thus, making a bot more human only helps to an extent, overdoing it would make botting inefficient and not really worth it.

Although the goal was to improve a game NPC AI, it could also be used to bot. Efficiency is not the issue, it could be on line "playing" for more hours than me, but still less than the "no life but eve" gamers. Thus is would look like a human (just a human addicted to eve), but still make more isk than I could on my own.

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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#14 - 2012-09-27 17:21:19 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Interesting article, thanks for the heads up!

I would say ... yes he can catch this, because this is EVE, not Unreal Tournament Pirate

The logs would show the WSAD keys being spammed!


Lies! The logs show NOTHING.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-09-27 17:23:53 UTC
Quote:
The winning bots both achieved a humanness rating of 52 percent. Human players received an average humanness rating of only 40 percent.

Ugh
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#16 - 2012-09-27 17:29:34 UTC
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Quote:
The winning bots both achieved a humanness rating of 52 percent. Human players received an average humanness rating of only 40 percent.

Ugh

This is already an issue with finding bots in Eve. Many players resemble bots in their play style.

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Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-09-27 17:33:28 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Quote:
The winning bots both achieved a humanness rating of 52 percent. Human players received an average humanness rating of only 40 percent.

Ugh

This is already an issue with finding bots in Eve. Many players resemble bots in their play style.

Lol
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#18 - 2012-09-27 18:20:19 UTC
At some point you just have to trow the towel in the ring, it's dweilen met de kraan open or bringing water to the sea.
Ban what you can ban and move one. For example a crap site like piratebay, how you gone fight that when you have music or video for download?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#19 - 2012-09-27 18:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Interesting article.

Not very useful though, since their observers were just gamers who may or may not have had any idea of what made a bot (a lot of folks claim bot just because they were beaten).

So, while this shows a bot could fool a player, it says nothing about if the bot could fool the devs and other informed observers.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-09-29 02:24:29 UTC
Those bots ARE the CCP devs Shocked

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
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