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CSM supports Nerfageddon

First post
Author
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#21 - 2012-09-26 22:09:09 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
Please do not take the liar Dinsdale Pirannha's words as representative of the highsec demographic, I for one hope for nothing more than balance that will make all security levels of space enjoyable for everyone, and I suspect this is what CCP wants as welll.

Eh who am I kidding, some people could be kicking back in paradise and still complain that the clouds are too fluffy.


Your term for enjoyable is interesting
Given your definition, a good analogy would be if car manufacturers started blacking out the front windshield, and their marketing team creating commercials describing this new exciting way to drive, designed to enhance your driving pleasure.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#22 - 2012-09-26 22:09:44 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Steven Seaga1 wrote:
So where are they? They might as well be that other most useless organzaton in RL, absolute total silence on the forums with any of thie feedback with upcoming nerfs. Theirs nothing in the sumit meeting minutes that references the winter nerfs and CCP did not come up with these changes overnight which leads to one result , they only serve one master and its not the avg player. So my question why arn't these nerfs in the meeting minutes???


The CSM are bound to a Non-Disclosure Agreement & can't discuss certain things until given the green light.

This.

This is the problem. It's clear that the NDA is the single biggest issue with the credibility of the CSM as a body. You can say what you like about its individual membership. Their hands are tied and their mouths are gagged before they even get on the plane. They can't properly represent us without some degree of informed interaction.

The current CSM minutes' level of detail appeared excessive. Now it's coming into question whether they ever saw the AI changes, in all likelihood because the details were all NDA'd out.

Give us less spew and more content in the CSM minutes. I don't want to know who in the room guffawed at whom. I want to know that we can count on the CSM to give us details about this kind of change so that our reaction can be adequately gauged. Too often it seems like our warnings as intelligent players go unheeded and something breaks because of it.

I don't think the AI change is unfounded at all. But that's not to say the CSM shouldn't have been able to discuss this with the players. That they allegedly cannot is really the travesty and farce of the whole arrangement. Representation without information doesn't seem like a great strategy for transparency and good relations with the players to me...

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-09-26 22:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Karl Hobb wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
There is also an element within CCP (Soundwave, Fox Four, who knows who else) who through the introduction of their pet changes have clearly demonstrated their hatred of high sec.

Lol

Sound-"Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable"-wave? Yeah right... As for Fox Four's contribution to the game's AI, how about you HTFU. Man, I hope those two actually DO hate high-sec, because all I've seen lately has been carebear buffs.


I can agree with them saying it wasn't designed to be profitable, but people that make themselves profitable targets through greed, laziness & stupidity have absolutely no valid reason to complain about suicide ganking & CCP should not bring in changes to compliment such behaviours.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#24 - 2012-09-26 22:10:28 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The CSM is committed to destroying high sec. Simply look at the makeup of the CSM.
Ask your self when the last time was ANY of the CSM ran a mission, or needed ISK for that matter.

There is also an element within CCP (Soundwave, Fox Four, who knows who else) who through the introduction of their pet changes have clearly demonstrated their hatred of high sec.

These 2 groups, in conjunction with the null sec propaganda teams, are intent on slowly wiping any high sec profitability out of the game.

The only thing that will stop them is if subs drop and the reason can be attributed back to the attacks on high sec.

http://i.imgur.com/XiCx5.jpg
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-09-26 22:11:03 UTC
There are no nerfs. Only rebalancing.
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#26 - 2012-09-26 22:13:19 UTC
I believe the CSM kiddies are too busy Gerrymandering to concern themselves with such trifles as game balance.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#27 - 2012-09-26 22:14:49 UTC
I salute any use of "gerrymandering" in any forum, in any circumstance. +1 to you, sir.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Sara Mars
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-09-26 22:23:40 UTC
U mean like how UI was put out
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#29 - 2012-09-26 22:33:45 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can agree with them saying it wasn't designed to be profitable, but people that make themselves profitable targets through greed, laziness & stupidity have absolutely no valid reason to complain about suicide ganking & CCP should not bring in changes to compliment such behaviours.

The point being that suicide ganking wasn't designed by developers at all, it was a way that players found to affect other players and eventually to make space cash.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-09-26 22:40:03 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can agree with them saying it wasn't designed to be profitable, but people that make themselves profitable targets through greed, laziness & stupidity have absolutely no valid reason to complain about suicide ganking & CCP should not bring in changes to compliment such behaviours.

The point being that suicide ganking wasn't designed by developers at all, it was a way that players found to affect other players and eventually to make space cash.



Whether by intention or not, the game mechanics made it possible & it became intended gameplay over time as a result of not being deemed an exploit. It's also awesome.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#31 - 2012-09-26 22:45:05 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
It's also awesome.

I don't dispute this.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Destru Kaneda
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#32 - 2012-09-26 22:46:23 UTC
Nerfageddon... Are you high?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#33 - 2012-09-26 22:48:24 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can agree with them saying it wasn't designed to be profitable, but people that make themselves profitable targets through greed, laziness & stupidity have absolutely no valid reason to complain about suicide ganking & CCP should not bring in changes to compliment such behaviours.

The point being that suicide ganking wasn't designed by developers at all, it was a way that players found to affect other players and eventually to make space cash.



Whether by intention or not, the game mechanics made it possible & it became intended gameplay over time as a result of not being deemed an exploit. It's also awesome.

Don't kid yourselves. They designed it inspired heavily by the mechanics of Ultima Online, with the express purpose of even being able to engage in combat in "nominally safe" areas such as UO's "towns," albeit at a cost. In Eve you know "towns" as "high-sec."

One may question whether CCP regret the initial decision to allow this style of gameplay, but I sincerely doubt that they do.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

iskflakes
#34 - 2012-09-26 22:59:42 UTC
This CSM has been pretty useless so far. The minutes seem to contain dozens of pages of them talking about themselves and talking about how they will talk about themselves more in future and using words like "stakeholder" and "communication" a lot. Perhaps I don't understand exactly what they're doing, but that in itself means their communication with the player-base has failed. I have not seen many posts by them, and their blogs are not incredibly active.

That said, the missile nerfs are 100% necessary. Highsec too needs to be nerfed, at least in its ability to compete with nullsec. Right now there is no reason for most players to leave highsec because the ISK is too good. CCP knows this, and they also know that players who leave highsec tend to stay with the game longer because they join nullsec communities. This should be encouraged for obvious reasons. A flat 25% cut to highsec income, a nerf to highsec station services and a significant bonus to nullsec industry would be sufficient to fix the problem. Perhaps to ease the transition to lower security space, lowsec could be made a little bit safer, or 0.5 could be made less safe (remove concord).

The rebalancing in general is a very good thing, and it will bring more flexibility to everybody. The only negative thing I have to say about it is the decision to fix beginner ships first, rather than starting with the most broken ships (blackops, HACs like the eagle, supercapitals and titans). I know why they did it, but it's still disappointing.

-

RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-09-26 23:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: RAGE QU1T
iskflakes wrote:
This CSM has been pretty useless so far. The minutes seem to contain dozens of pages of them talking about themselves and talking about how they will talk about themselves more in future and using words like "stakeholder" and "communication" a lot. Perhaps I don't understand exactly what they're doing, but that in itself means their communication with the player-base has failed. I have not seen many posts by them, and their blogs are not incredibly active.

That said, the missile nerfs are 100% necessary. Highsec too needs to be nerfed, at least in its ability to compete with nullsec. Right now there is no reason for most players to leave highsec because the ISK is too good. CCP knows this, and they also know that players who leave highsec tend to stay with the game longer because they join nullsec communities. This should be encouraged for obvious reasons. A flat 25% cut to highsec income, a nerf to highsec station services and a significant bonus to nullsec industry would be sufficient to fix the problem. Perhaps to ease the transition to lower security space, lowsec could be made a little bit safer, or 0.5 could be made less safe (remove concord).

The rebalancing in general is a very good thing, and it will bring more flexibility to everybody. The only negative thing I have to say about it is the decision to fix beginner ships first, rather than starting with the most broken ships (blackops, HACs like the eagle, supercapitals and titans). I know why they did it, but it's still disappointing.



You want HighSec to compete with Null, then give the ability to install IHubs? No, give us high end mining anoms? No, Let us builds Caps and Supers in Highsec? No? Then STFU with that bollocks. on another note the lack of communication from the CSM is disconserting to say the least, how about if a Recall Election were proposed?
iskflakes
#36 - 2012-09-27 00:12:35 UTC
RAGE QU1T wrote:
You want HighSec to compete with Null, then give the ability to install IHubs? No, give us high end mining anoms? No, Let us builds Caps and Supers in Highsec? No? Then STFU with that bollocks.


You seem to be proposing we turn highsec into nullsec. I don't think that's a very sensible suggestion. Highsec should be a region for beginners, but not a region to older players to hide in forever. Right now there is too much money and safety in highsec, so nerfing income, station services and maybe restricting certain modules and ships would help move people out of it. It should be impossible to PLEX an account using highsec income. I think we can all agree that would benefit the game a lot.

-

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-09-27 00:18:45 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
RAGE QU1T wrote:
You want HighSec to compete with Null, then give the ability to install IHubs? No, give us high end mining anoms? No, Let us builds Caps and Supers in Highsec? No? Then STFU with that bollocks.


You seem to be proposing we turn highsec into nullsec. I don't think that's a very sensible suggestion. Highsec should be a region for beginners, but not a region to older players to hide in forever. Right now there is too much money and safety in highsec, so nerfing income, station services and maybe restricting certain modules and ships would help move people out of it. It should be impossible to PLEX an account using highsec income. I think we can all agree that would benefit the game a lot.


Don't make it not possible, just make it a lot more difficult.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#38 - 2012-09-27 02:32:49 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
RAGE QU1T wrote:
You want HighSec to compete with Null, then give the ability to install IHubs? No, give us high end mining anoms? No, Let us builds Caps and Supers in Highsec? No? Then STFU with that bollocks.


You seem to be proposing we turn highsec into nullsec. I don't think that's a very sensible suggestion. Highsec should be a region for beginners, but not a region to older players to hide in forever. Right now there is too much money and safety in highsec, so nerfing income, station services and maybe restricting certain modules and ships would help move people out of it. It should be impossible to PLEX an account using highsec income. I think we can all agree that would benefit the game a lot.

hahahahaha

Oh. You're serious? PLEX prices too high for you perhaps?

Have no fear, under your scenario, PLEX prices will drop dude.

Nobody will be buying 'em.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#39 - 2012-09-27 02:35:36 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
I salute any use of "gerrymandering" in any forum, in any circumstance. +1 to you, sir.
Why thank you kind sir.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-09-27 03:50:01 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
RAGE QU1T wrote:
You want HighSec to compete with Null, then give the ability to install IHubs? No, give us high end mining anoms? No, Let us builds Caps and Supers in Highsec? No? Then STFU with that bollocks.


You seem to be proposing we turn highsec into nullsec. I don't think that's a very sensible suggestion. Highsec should be a region for beginners, but not a region to older players to hide in forever. Right now there is too much money and safety in highsec, so nerfing income, station services and maybe restricting certain modules and ships would help move people out of it. It should be impossible to PLEX an account using highsec income. I think we can all agree that would benefit the game a lot.


I'd be more interested in changing sec status. Make anything .8 and above "Highsec" and make the rest lowsec with varying response times on various naval forces in lieu of concord.