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C5/C6 long range sleeper farming with caps - how to do it?
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Patricia Starshine
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-09-26 05:55:24 UTC
I am living in C5 and trying to add new tactics to our sleeper farming. We are shield tanked and for a long time, we use up to four cap ships (chimera + phoenix) to get additional spawns, then kill them with classic ships like tengus. Works fine, but it takes time. And yes, I know phoenix can't hit a battleship worth squat, it doesn't stay on site.

From what I read, there are basically two tactics to use dreads for sleeper farming.
1) Letting them close to normal orbit range and fry with Moros / Revelation. Webs + paints needed, of course.
2) Jump far away and snipe them. They travel toward ships in line, eliminating low turning rate of Dread's turrets. And if you start far enough, they return to their starting positions before getting in range to kill you. In effect, you need only two carriers / two dreads on site to get all four cap spawns, greatly reducing number of pilots needed.

What I don't know is if it still works, how far do I have to jump and how to fit the dreads to do it. I expect Revelation to be better at sniping and Moros is by all accounts better at close range. I can easily pilot Moros and learning Revelation would be piece of cake if needed.

Does anyone here use the sniping tactics? How you do it and what are your dread fits?
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-09-26 15:58:01 UTC
sit about 300km away (use a zephyr or something to get the warpin), bring caps in, stop ship, seige (use railguns/beams obviously), and blap them as they come in range. sit a carrier/rorqual next to the dreads so they can refit. Start with an untanked/longrange fit (aka, 1 capital rep, no other mods), blap targets as they mwd in closer to you. Note, while this works, it is generally not as effective as the shortrange fits (and I have no idea if this still works or not - try it with tengu's first to see if they still rubber band) because a dread with longrange guns and shortrange ammo already has its damage cut in half with high damage ammo loaded in both. To then hit at the necessary ranges (100-200km) you need to go ahead and use longer range, reduced damage ammo as well, which reduces site completion time even more.

To give a comparison, a maxed out moros with a 6% damage implant, 3 faction damage mods, and t1 antimatter does 13,674dps. Add a 4th damage mod and it hits 14591dps. This does this damage (with higher tracking than rails I might add) at the ranges that the sleeper battleships orbit at, about 35km. Take this exact same moros, (and moros is better than revelation, even with longrange fits) and switch to rails, and you get 7919dps with 4 damage mods, at somewhere in the range of 80-90km. Switching ammo to hit at 200km, and you have to drop to iridium charges, which cuts the dps to 4620dps. At this point, you need 3 moros's to do the same damage as a single shortrange one. So if you have 3 people (and no frig swatters), you are matching the damage of the shortrange carrier/loki/moros group. Of course, add a 4th person to both teams, and the shortrange fits double their damage, while the longrange fits go up to a mere 20k dps.

In the end, sniping dreads is a cool gimmick, but not really worthwhile isk wise when compared to a proper shortrange fleet. And as far as getting jumped by someone connecting to your hole, you are just as screwed either way, but the shortrange fit does at least offer some hope of taking someone down with you.

-Arazel
Patricia Starshine
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-09-26 16:54:53 UTC
Thanks. I agree completely on PvP, Snipedreads don't have a chance when jumped by enemy fleet. Unless they are conveniently made of battleships, not moving and out of ammo...
I am thinking about snipedreads only as fallback solution if our corps need some hard cash and lacks people for normal support fleet (read webs, paints, boosts, and fly swatting). If they really can't attack our ships, it would solve all rep issues. I really doubt our webbers would like us if we warped carrier *and* dread right at start. DPS-wise, I am not sure our tengus and lokis would instant-pop or simply burn down very fast :(

I guess its still needed to destroy first 6 BS sleepers with regular ships before warping first dread in, right? I mean, of course, in close-range fit.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2012-09-27 22:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
We used two Revelations fit for tracking and damage, and with a single TP. The other 8-10 ships were passive resist RR Tengu, also fitted with a TP. It took us on average about 14 minutes per site.

The Revelations would warp-in about 20 km to 50 km away from the Tengus. Everyone would paint the "next target", which the dreads shot at.

Clear site with Tengus (and usually assigned fighters from first carrier).
Wave 1: Chimera. Primary repper. Not triaged, so could use fighters and warp if necessary (came in handy).
Wave 2: Revelation
Wave 3: Revelation
Wave 4: Chimera. Fit for DPS with light repping (if he repped, Tengus could stop repping), and cap transfer for dreads after site finished to prepare for next (rarely needed). Also not triaged, so could use fighters and warp if necessary.

Tengu pilots would return to POS and swap to the 2/3/4 capitals when 3 battleships were left. When doing a static site, we'd only use the first chimera for one escalation wave.

A few past posts on the subject:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=385146#post385146
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=696957#post696957
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-09-28 02:55:50 UTC
Have a read if you want to learn how to do it properly:

Escalations with subcaps: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144953
Proper escalations: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1808470

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-09-30 08:09:52 UTC
Stop using the Phoenix.

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Patricia Starshine
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-10-01 05:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Patricia Starshine
Told ya, our phoenixes are purely "cap spawn starters", they jump in, jump out, return as tengu... its stupid and slow but it works if you don't have other dreads. Thats what I am trying to fix now. Unfortunately, I am the only one whose chars spent more then a year now learning all basic ship classes and all guns. I have the best booster, best fleet commander, best webbing loki, best gunners, best miner, best logi... the problem is they should do several of those roles simultaneously. If I could clone them and use them together, it would be awesome. My booster is also loki pilot and needs to web their battleships, my logi is more useful in tengu as added DPS, plus I am finishing her as second moros pilot, etc.