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Cynojammer module

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-09-26 11:04:16 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:
But there is no room for arguments like "some people will still complaining". The Question is: "would the change improve something and would that improvment be better than the drawback?"
My individual answer to this Question is: Yes, it would.

And my individual answer to this question is: I don't see a problem with the way hotdrops happen now. I see no particular reason why there should be any changes, since most of the time the situation can be either averted or turned on its head by proper show of force or preparation and counterdropping.

Keep in mind that a localized cynojammer would make it impossible to get help in a timely manner as well, unless you, in return, prepared by having someone more than 150 off in turn. And, this would also in turn make it easier for the hotdroppers to extract themselves, because they get 30-60 seconds warning that you're going to warp your caps/BSes on them in turn, so in reality this change'll just make it even safer to hotdrop. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#102 - 2012-09-26 11:07:05 UTC
Cleaned up the thread and removed unnecessary posts. Please keep this constructive and to the point guys, nothing good will come out of calling other players names or saying arguments are stupid.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator
Justitia McKingston
#103 - 2012-09-26 11:34:13 UTC
Quote:
Keep in mind that a localized cynojammer would make it impossible to get help in a timely manner as well, unless you, in return, prepared by having someone more than 150 off in turn.


Yes and no in my Opinion. If you have a Counterhotdrop ready then just open the cyno directly with the Bait. The time needen fpr the enemy to come in, target your cyno and closing it is more than enough to bring your counterdrop in.

If you are not fast enoug then warp to your 200 m safe and open it there.

Closing with a really fast intercepto is not a option too because the interceptro has to warp, come out of warp, target the cyno and close it. That should be more than 10 seconds.

Approaching at 200km is not a option too because no intercepter is able to fly so fast (as far as i know) to reach the cyno in 10 seconds or less.


Quote:
And, this would also in turn make it easier for the hotdroppers to extract themselves, because they get 30-60 seconds warning that you're going to warp your caps/BSes on them in turn


Yes you get a warning. But if you are bubbled (every prepared counterhotdropper should have one i think) it dosent matter so much in my opinion.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-09-26 11:52:11 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:
Yes and no in my Opinion. If you have a Counterhotdrop ready then just open the cyno directly with the Bait. The time needen fpr the enemy to come in, target your cyno and closing it is more than enough to bring your counterdrop in.

You can't light your cyno near your jammer, just like the other guy can't, you have to make sure your counterdrop is either within engagement range of their cyno in spot or their warp-in spot, you have to hope they're not adept at putting up bubbles to prevent your reinforcements from warping in on them at engagement range (and that they don't just see your cyno and just disengage, if they even come in or engage at all).

Justitia McKingston wrote:
Yes you get a warning. But if you are bubbled (every prepared counterhotdropper should have one i think) it dosent matter so much in my opinion.

Preparing properly will end up giving them ample time to see when a trap is a trap, and disengage or not engage at all.

TL/DR: your changes will make hotdrops even safer.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Justitia McKingston
#105 - 2012-09-26 12:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Justitia McKingston
Quote:
You can't light your cyno near your jammer, just like the other guy can't,


Why? 20 km is not that great range.

Quote:
Preparing properly will end up giving them ample time to see when a trap is a trap, and disengage or not engage at all.


Why that? They open a cyno and want to jump in as fast as possible.
You open the Cyno and hopping as past as possible in.
They are at Field and you are at field. It can start now i think?

Quote:
TL/DR: your changes will make hotdrops even safer.


In some constructed cases maybe but mostly it will need more teamwork and provide more risk for the Hotdropper.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-09-26 12:35:37 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:
Quote:
You can't light your cyno near your jammer, just like the other guy can't,

Why? 20 km is not that great range.

Wait, uh, what range are you saying the jammer should be effective at? 20km?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#107 - 2012-09-26 12:36:18 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:

In some constructed cases maybe but mostly it will need more teamwork and provide more risk for the Hotdropper.


risk for the hotdropper isnt the cyno ship but the whole gang behind the cyno. If you want a risk added, then prepare and counterdrop him. No extra module required for this.
Justitia McKingston
#108 - 2012-09-26 12:56:10 UTC
Quote:
risk for the hotdropper isnt the cyno ship but the whole gang behind the cyno. If you want a risk added, then prepare and counterdrop him. No extra module required for this.


I disagree. I accept that the Hotdropping Gang is a Risk, yes. But the Cynoship is it too.
There are cases that the Hotropping Gang is not willing to come. Then the Risk is nearly 0 because they lose only a very cheap cyno ship.

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#109 - 2012-09-26 13:01:38 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:

I disagree. I accept that the Hotdropping Gang is a Risk, yes. But the Cynoship is it too.
There are cases that the Hotropping Gang is not willing to come. Then the Risk is nearly 0 because they lose only a very cheap cyno ship.

describe this scenario. In which case would someone push with 3-4 cyno ships but then decide otherwise? This is a very rare case and I think it isnt a justification for anything like the proposed jammer device.
Justitia McKingston
#110 - 2012-09-26 13:07:04 UTC
Quote:
describe this scenario. In which case would someone push with 3-4 cyno ships but then decide otherwise? This is a very rare case and I think it isnt a justification for anything like the proposed jammer device.


I think i missed something. At the moment no one is pushing with 3-4 cyno ships. No need to push with that currently. With such a module this would be needen and yes you are right if you have already 3-4 cyno ships there you will likley decide to jump in instead to let them die. Thats the point.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2012-09-26 13:13:36 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:
I disagree. I accept that the Hotdropping Gang is a Risk, yes. But the Cynoship is it too.
There are cases that the Hotropping Gang is not willing to come. Then the Risk is nearly 0 because they lose only a very cheap cyno ship.

Actually, the only thing the changes will mean, if the cynojammer thing only affects space in a sphere of 20km around the designated jammer ship, is that the attackers might risk a sub-50m dictor if they definitely want to make sure one specific ship doesn't get away, and the 2m isk cynofrig. Apart from that, there'll be no major differences. Pop cyno at 30km, own bitches, give no fucks. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#112 - 2012-09-26 13:13:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Justitia McKingston wrote:
Quote:
describe this scenario. In which case would someone push with 3-4 cyno ships but then decide otherwise? This is a very rare case and I think it isnt a justification for anything like the proposed jammer device.


I think i missed something. At the moment no one is pushing with 3-4 cyno ships. No need to push with that currently. With such a module this would be needen and yes you are right if you have already 3-4 cyno ships there you will likley decide to jump in instead to let them die. Thats the point.


no, I mean why would you push with those 3-4 ships at all if you got intel on your target, but then decide otherwise? This makes no sense.
Justitia McKingston
#113 - 2012-09-26 13:39:51 UTC
If you got intel. If you have no intel and you just sent out single baits to catch something, then it makes sence. The bait is your intel.

Btw.. if someone pushes with 3-4 Cyno ships, the module will not prevent them from opening that cyno (with some navigationskills...)
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2012-09-26 13:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
well then people would send 1 drake scout and 3 additional cyno recons behind it, or even simply a light cheap scout ahead.
You wouldnt add any risk to cynobaits. People will always find a way to minimize risk somehow. Your "idea" of a module saving you from a hotdrop is still **** and not working.
Justitia McKingston
#115 - 2012-09-26 14:23:42 UTC
And again .. the 4th time. I dont want to be save from a Hotdrop.

I dont like to quote it again and again .. you find my statement on several pages.

Quote:
well then people would send 1 drake scout and 3 additional cyno recons behind it, or even simply a light cheap scout ahead.


Maybe. But one cheap Scout and a 3-4 man Cyno gang roaming around needs Teamwork and there is a good chance to get those 3-4 Cyno gang.

Quote:
a module saving you from a hotdrop is still **** and not working


Never said that it should make me immune to a hotdrop. That exists already .. look at the anchored cynojammer.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2012-09-26 14:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
you're trying hard but your argumentation is getting more and more riduculous. Stop already.
Risk for hotdrop should remain with the whole gang not with the cyno ship. What you're trying is to turn it into a real pain in the ass and to effectively reduce the amount of hotdrops because its getting so much pain in the ass and way too much hassle involved in that, making a hotdrop more than obvious like attaching a flashing siren on their head -> nerf its stealthy nature - which is probably your actual intent stealth nerfing cyno drops on your head. Stop posting.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#117 - 2012-09-26 14:55:54 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:
And again .. the 4th time. I dont want to be save from a Hotdrop.

I dont like to quote it again and again .. you find my statement on several pages.

Quote:
well then people would send 1 drake scout and 3 additional cyno recons behind it, or even simply a light cheap scout ahead.


Maybe. But one cheap Scout and a 3-4 man Cyno gang roaming around needs Teamwork and there is a good chance to get those 3-4 Cyno gang.

Very smooth. You are substituting their risk for PvE pilot's here.

This has the net result of solo play becoming safer, since an obvious roam or fleet spiking in local is far more likely to be reported, and extremely obvious once it shows up in the system you are in.
Add to that, the roam / fleet now has random barriers of other players to deal with. Really anyone looking for a fight will be more likely to encounter a group that is hunting.

Oh, and they are far less likely to get to solo PvE pilots. If the other random pilots don't intercept them, they will probably hear about them passing through neighboring systems.

Justitia McKingston wrote:
Quote:
a module saving you from a hotdrop is still **** and not working


Never said that it should make me immune to a hotdrop. That exists already .. look at the anchored cynojammer.

It may not make you immune to being hot dropped, but it does make it far less likely.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Justitia McKingston
#118 - 2012-09-26 15:10:47 UTC
Not every Situation will require 3-4 Ships to open up a Cyno. If you hund doen a PvE Pilot it is more likely he have not such a Module fitted. In PvE you need your Mid slots for other things.

Solo PVP players already need the usual Disruptor and maybe a Web/Scram to some other Things more usefull in general cases than a Cynojammer.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-09-26 15:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
stop posting.
your idea sucks because it produces too much hassle around something which should be easy.
Risk for hotdrops is with the gang itself not with the (disposable) cyno ship, which is ok and should be that way.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#120 - 2012-09-26 16:18:22 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:
I would like to have a Med-Slot Module to close Cynos or to prevent ships from opening a Cyno.

It should work like the Warpdisruptor with 20 km Range and have similar Activation but a much higher Duration. Can be as long as the Cyno Module.

If a ship open up a cyno and this kind of Jammer is activated, the cyno should be closed immediatly. The Cynoship should continue moving and Shooting but the Cynomodule can not be activated again until his cycle is completed.

A counter tactic could be to fit more than one cyno and to burn out of Jamming range to open up an other cyno.

This will also give the possibility for the Attacking gang to close the Cyno after jumping on it and "free" the cyno ship.

The high Duration of the Cynojammer would prevent the Jamming ship to close multiple Cynos with a single Module in a short time.


This would completely **** reinforcing sov battles