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Auto Cannons
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Tierla Harrington
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-13 01:24:46 UTC
Is there a good guide that explains how optimal range, tracking speed, and falloff works for auto cannons and artillery?
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-10-13 01:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
A target within your optimal range will take full damage from your guns, before taking tracking into account.

After your optimal range (100% damage) you start heading towards your falloff (50% damage). A target at your falloff will typically take half the damage that a target at your optimal will. Of course, this is also before taking tracking into account, so it will probably be even less than what EFT says.

A target at your falloff*2 will take very little or no damage at all.

So basically:

<-Optimal = No DPS lost to range (-DPS lost to tracking)
Optimal -> Falloff = 100% -> 50% of your DPS will be applied (-DPS lost to tracking)
Falloff -> Falloff*2 = 50% -> 0% of your DPS will be applied (-DPS lost to tracking)
Tierla Harrington
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-13 01:59:38 UTC
That does seem quite simple. Another question of a different nature, what is the roll of the mass of a ship and its modules in piloting?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2011-10-13 02:32:36 UTC
Mass affects your agility... which affects your max speed, ability to accelerate and decelerate, and your ability to turn without losing speed.

How did you Veterans start?
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-10-13 08:31:29 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Mass affects your agility... which affects your max speed, ability to accelerate and decelerate, and your ability to turn without losing speed.


Almost correct, Mass does not affect the max speed.

For example: adding a 1600mm plate will not lower your max speed, but it will take longer to accelerate to that max speed.


Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-13 10:13:47 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Mass affects your agility... which affects your max speed, ability to accelerate and decelerate, and your ability to turn without losing speed.


Almost correct, Mass does not affect the max speed.

It doesn't affect base speed but it does affect the speed increase you get with a prop mod active. For instance, a cane with an MWD and an all-V pilot has a top speed of 1311 m/s with the MWD active; putting a 1600mm plate on it increases its MWDing mass by 15% and reduces its (non-heated) top MWD speed to 1161m/s.
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-10-13 10:20:52 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Mass affects your agility... which affects your max speed, ability to accelerate and decelerate, and your ability to turn without losing speed.


Almost correct, Mass does not affect the max speed.

It doesn't affect base speed but it does affect the speed increase you get with a prop mod active. For instance, a cane with an MWD and an all-V pilot has a top speed of 1311 m/s with the MWD active; putting a 1600mm plate on it increases its MWDing mass by 15% and reduces its (non-heated) top MWD speed to 1161m/s.


Correct. It does not lower your max (base) speed. But it lowers the effectiveness of propulsion mods.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Tierla Harrington
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-10-13 20:45:59 UTC
Is there a formula for calculating this loss of speed with an AB or MWD?
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#9 - 2011-10-14 18:46:01 UTC
Tierla Harrington wrote:
Is there a formula for calculating this loss of speed with an AB or MWD?


EFT. Which means that there is a formula out there somewhere that you can probably google, but 99% of the time for these kind of questions you're better just trying out fittings in EFT, it's simpler and faster.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#10 - 2011-10-16 20:10:53 UTC
i've been looking at this a lot with an autocannon fit and there's two things I have decided that there is to consider:

1. How to hit
2. How not to be hit.

With autocannon it's a case of getting in at low distance. Of course that may mean that you're in range of the other fellow so it means that you have to hit better than you are being hit and my current frame of thought (perhaps soon to be changed for anothr frame of thought) is as follows:

Agility is important. This means that his tracking i going to be worse than yours. So I am thinking that getting rod of the plate may be an advantage here.

Tracking is important because if I can't hit him then it's no good. Also dump the shields; this adds too much signature to the ship. At the moment I am trying to find a way to get down to about 30m in a good ship. And failing by the way. But the aim is to have my ship's signature less than his autocannon's (which is 50m).

I am currently experimenting with no webifier. I am actually looking to be webbed; the way I see if is that if I am webbed then his traversal is going to be messed up too. So I will let him web me and that frees up one middle slot. This may be warped and extreme lateral thinking but me and the ship's cat both agree, especially after a bottle and a half of Western Cape red, that it's a fantastic idea (the fact that I am fitting a new ship at the moment may argue otherwise).

So my current view on looking at the formula is to get in close, fast, be agile (no plate), plenty of tracking, no shields and, er, lots of insurance.

Yours pod tanking
MH

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Navi Devarii
Blue.Shift
#11 - 2011-10-17 04:05:27 UTC
a good method to find the peak point is to optimize your tracking for your ships' agility.

There's a bit of math involved (and it escapes me at the moment), but it all boils down to figuring out your optimal orbiting distance. This is really important for hybrids and lasers, as it determines just how far away, or how close, you can orbit at optimal velocity and still hit. This strikes your best balance of 'avoiding being hit' while still laying out the punches, since any faster and you're not hitting anything.

In most combat, this can be a moot point since webifiers are often in play:

With no webs, it's a matter of who can maintain optimal distance. One of you is going to be too close/too far for the other.
With one web (against you), it purely pits your tracking speed and range against their agility and range.
With two webs (mutual snare), it's a raw dps race.

Most pvp engagements will typically start between 20-24km since this is prime real estate for overheated warp disruptors on tacklers. Your opponent will also typically have a microwarp drive as well, and be tuned to engaging at that range. You may wish to plan accordingly.