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Credit Analysis skill for traders
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Cheopis
Cheopis Industries
#1 - 2012-09-26 06:51:52 UTC

The margin trading skill is very handy, but it's also very abuseable.

I suggest allowing traders with Margin Trading 5 to gain access to a new skill: Credit Analysis.

Pay a small fee to the Concord Credit Bureau, and get an analysis of any open buy order to verify that the money is there to back the order.

If the money is NOT there, the item is marked as NSF (Insufficient Funds) and anyone with the Credit Analysis skill will see this.

Levels would allow additional range, not any improvement in capacity.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#2 - 2012-09-27 10:52:29 UTC
lol.. this is actually kind of funny, and might not even be a bad idea. The Margin Trading skill relies on credit, so why not have a means to verify that credit.

Here's what I think might be a good counter to Margin trading too: As a credit based skill, Margin Trading should affect the credit of the user when it is abused. So any misuse of the skill, (i.e: funds not being available), should result in the loss of a level of the skill, which then needs to be retrained, and a minor hit to security status. It is generally speaking fraudulent after all.

Then of course, you can apply the penalty for recycling alts to avoid penalties imposed by game mechanics on them.

P.S. I want my 4 Billion ISK back.
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Mark Hadden
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-09-27 10:56:35 UTC
another noob who got scammed :-D

the margin trading skill is explicitely for the purpose of overstretching your wallet and create buy oders for goods you cant pay.
There is no direct harm being done to players by this trading system, if you cant pay you dont receive anything.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#4 - 2012-09-27 11:49:39 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
another noob who got scammed :-D

the margin trading skill is explicitely for the purpose of overstretching your wallet and create buy oders for goods you cant pay.
There is no direct harm being done to players by this trading system, if you cant pay you dont receive anything.


Don't call me a noob.

It was a while ago anyway, and it isn't a scam; it's f'd up game mechanics. Yes, it is detectable if you understand the game mechanic in question and how it can be used to fool you into thinking you are purchasing a potentially profitable item elsewhere, but otherwise, it's a game mechanic, not a scam.

I didn't get ripped off by a game mechanic, but by someone playing on a game mechanic. That would make it an unintentional exploit, as the mechanic isn't being used for it's intended purpose.

Regardless, the actual rip off occurs with a contract typically, which is where the same person on an alt, takes your ISK and replaces it with some worthless item. That item doesn't even have to be a useless npc commodity, but can be some Tech 2 item that has zero profitability. I lost 2 billion on one of those, and ended up selling off a bunch of tech 2 rigs for next to nothing.

A mechanic abused for personal gain, is a mechanic exploited.

Regardless, I just don't like the players who take advantage of game mechanics to create false markets in game so they can sell something for more than it's worth.
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Cheopis
Cheopis Industries
#5 - 2012-09-28 01:48:17 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
another noob who got scammed :-D

the margin trading skill is explicitely for the purpose of overstretching your wallet and create buy oders for goods you cant pay.
There is no direct harm being done to players by this trading system, if you cant pay you dont receive anything.



Heh, actually I did not get scammed. I saw what was obviously a too-good-to-be-true deal and immediately knew it was too good to be true.

Contract for 1.5 billion for an officer mod. Open buy order for 2.0 billion for that same officer mod.

The immediate reaction was BUY! SELL! Then the brain kicked in and realized that there's no way that someone with the capability to acquire a officer module through anything but pure, blind luck would ever miss the opportunity to simply sell the item to the open market. and make 500 million more than they were asking for the module, especially after I challenged them in local as to why they were not simply selling to the order and pocketing the extra 500 mill.

I would have eventually noodled it out myself, I'm sure, but I was saved from having to do so by another pilot who explained how margin trading can be used in conjunction with contracts to collect a massive amount of money for the purchase of an item, then when the buyer tries to resell it into the buy order, the order pops. Since I don't use margin trading as a weapon, I'd never considered this mechanic before.

It's not a straightforward scam, but it's definitely a mechanic that needs a counter.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-09-28 04:47:59 UTC
The hotdrop of the open market, margin trading scams are just that... A SCAM! CCP won't do anything to change this because they want their game to function this way.

Mark Hadden wrote:
another noob who got scammed :-D

the margin trading skill is explicitely for the purpose of overstretching your wallet and create buy oders for goods you cant pay.
There is no direct harm being done to players by this trading system, if you cant pay you dont receive anything.


Couldn't agree more, this is a well documented scam and a simple search or asking anybody who has used the market for more than a week knows the full details on how it works.

If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. Always always always question everything if it seems too easy.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#7 - 2012-09-28 09:58:38 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
The hotdrop of the open market, margin trading scams are just that... A SCAM! CCP won't do anything to change this because they want their game to function this way.

Mark Hadden wrote:
another noob who got scammed :-D

the margin trading skill is explicitely for the purpose of overstretching your wallet and create buy oders for goods you cant pay.
There is no direct harm being done to players by this trading system, if you cant pay you dont receive anything.


Couldn't agree more, this is a well documented scam and a simple search or asking anybody who has used the market for more than a week knows the full details on how it works.

If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. Always always always question everything if it seems too easy.


I wouldn't say that. I trained up a Trade toon to near 8 million SP, used the market fairly regularly in my early gameplay, and trained the skills on all but a few of my characters, while trading for 3 years while running mission, and later operating out of wormholes and it never occured to me that I could just empty out my wallet and have somebody sell to one of my orders and have the order just blink and disappear. Can't recall anyone ever mentioning it to me either.
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