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NPC combat AI to be upgraded. Your thoughts?

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Author
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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#61 - 2012-09-24 05:03:46 UTC
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both.

.
Allophyl
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#62 - 2012-09-24 11:41:06 UTC
Roime wrote:
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both.

Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions?
bufnitza calatoare
#63 - 2012-09-24 13:49:01 UTC
Allophyl wrote:
Roime wrote:
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both.

Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions?



I use them in forsaken hubs.
Allophyl
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#64 - 2012-09-24 15:33:25 UTC
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
Allophyl wrote:
Roime wrote:
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both.

Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions?



I use them in forsaken hubs.


Awesome, thanks. I've been doing those in a Myrmidon with Hammerhead IIs while saving up/training up to use the Domi. With the medium drones, the battleships and elite cruisers can take a while to pop, so I'm looking forward to getting into the Dominix. Too bad I already wasted 3 days training Heavy Drones V, but I'll still train it at some point anyway, so at least it isn't totally wasted.
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
#65 - 2012-09-24 15:34:34 UTC
If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.

Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of:
- same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first)
- then highest dps targets first after that.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#66 - 2012-09-24 15:38:29 UTC
Chimpy B wrote:
If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.

Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of:
- same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first)
- then highest dps targets first after that.


I wish we had more drone command options to like "return to drone bay if drone gets to half shields" and such.

The current drone interface is just beyond tedious, which is why I tend to do anomalies without drones (thank god for FoF missiles lol).
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
#67 - 2012-09-24 16:30:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chimpy B wrote:
If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.

Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of:
- same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first)
- then highest dps targets first after that.


I wish we had more drone command options to like "return to drone bay if drone gets to half shields" and such.

The current drone interface is just beyond tedious, which is why I tend to do anomalies without drones (thank god for FoF missiles lol).

Yeah that would be nice, but might be considered too "easy mode" and also the interface might get too complicated for new players.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-09-24 17:06:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chimpy B wrote:
If this is going to happen I really think the component cost of T2 drones needs to be reduced to compensate, so drones could be treated more like ammo.

Also drone AI could be improved. I'd like to see drones attack in priority of:
- same sized enemies (e.g. medium drones attack cruisers first)
- then highest dps targets first after that.


I wish we had more drone command options to like "return to drone bay if drone gets to half shields" and such.

The current drone interface is just beyond tedious, which is why I tend to do anomalies without drones (thank god for FoF missiles lol).



I would just be happy to have some early warning. Like a warning alarm when my drones are getting yellow boxed, so I dont have to wait until they are taking damage to react, and then wait for their lag time responding etc etc.
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#69 - 2012-09-24 23:43:52 UTC
Time to train up drone durability 5
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#70 - 2012-09-25 15:28:13 UTC
Allophyl wrote:
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
Allophyl wrote:
Roime wrote:
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both.

Does that include nullsec ratting/anomalies, or were they only preferred for missions?



I use them in forsaken hubs.


Awesome, thanks. I've been doing those in a Myrmidon with Hammerhead IIs while saving up/training up to use the Domi. With the medium drones, the battleships and elite cruisers can take a while to pop, so I'm looking forward to getting into the Dominix. Too bad I already wasted 3 days training Heavy Drones V, but I'll still train it at some point anyway, so at least it isn't totally wasted.


Especially anoms and exploration, I haven't spent much time missioning. I'd consider the Ishtar for null ratting, you will appreciate it's agility when you need to leave in a hurry, but Dominix is a boss as well.

Heavy Drones SP are certainly not wasted, don't worry! They are mobile, which is handy in some situations. Sentries just do instant damage over long ranges with very good tracking (think of long-range battleship guns with short-range gun tracking).

.
Veritas Luxmea
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-09-25 23:30:59 UTC
I currently use 2 accounts to dual-box 10/10s in Blood Raider nullsec (and all other plexes below 10/10, obviously).
My setup is a tank and a DPS.
Each is trained and fitted for its own role, in a way my tank doesn't do any DPS, and my DPS doesn't tank a flying chicken coming it's direction.

Target changing means the end of Plexing for me.

Since plexing is one of the things I do the most in EVE, I wonder if it will break my will to play.

It remains to be seen.
Allophyl
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#72 - 2012-09-25 23:47:52 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Tarikla wrote:
RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually.



All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;)


While this and the whole "improving the AI to make rats more like players" sounds like a nice goal on paper, in reality there is a huge problem with it. There's a major difference between PvP and PvE: PvP costs money. PvE is used as a way to make money. In PvP you *expect* to lose your ship, while in PvE, losing ships at anything near the rate you do in PvP will make it completely unsustainable and make it impossible to make a profit except with large gangs. Granted, PvE should still carry *some* risk, but when you start giving every rat a point, web and prop mod and bring their ships in line with player ships, *and* give the player absolutely no way of controlling aggro, the risk suddenly goes through the roof, making the reward no longer worth it, and making the curve for new players orders of magnitude steeper - and not only that, but it will absolutely kill variety in fits, since every single player will have to fit for both tank and dps - goodbye specialized ships.
Veritas Luxmea
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-09-26 00:04:56 UTC
Here! Let's change something that's worked well for nearly 10 years!
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#74 - 2012-09-26 00:22:12 UTC
Allophyl wrote:

...but when you start giving every rat a point, web and prop mod and bring their ships in line with player ships, *and* give the player absolutely no way of controlling aggro, the risk suddenly goes through the roof, making the reward no longer worth it, and making the curve for new players orders of magnitude steeper - and not only that, but it will absolutely kill variety in fits, since every single player will have to fit for both tank and dps - goodbye specialized ships.


Ultimately we'll have rat cruiser's spider tanking all the incoming damage... and they'll still be worth 150k ISK.

Really I think the people hoping for rat AI / ship fittings to be equal to player's forget that the average L4 mission has 40+ rats, very few of which are actually worth killing for their ISK rewards.
Slumpert
Hookers and Quafe
#75 - 2012-09-26 01:07:21 UTC
My question would be ... Does this also affect the "AI" of gate guns?
Hyrath Rotineque
Dagger-1
The.Enclave
#76 - 2012-09-26 04:04:43 UTC
Veritas Luxmea wrote:
Here! Let's change something that's worked well for nearly 10 years!

Stop complaining and just get 2 Marauders with 1 energy transfer and 2 reps. Problems solved. Cool
bufnitza calatoare
#77 - 2012-09-26 05:11:48 UTC
imo and as other have said before me. tot he solo player it will have neg effect if at all.

but to those that use a logistics alt it will have more noticeable effect.

otherwise its eve online as usual.
bufnitza calatoare
#78 - 2012-09-26 05:13:38 UTC
Veritas Luxmea wrote:
Here! Let's change something that's worked well for nearly 10 years!


not going to worry me in the slightest. iw ill still make 35+m per tick.

well if you cant handle the change feel free to contract me everything you own and I will give you an account name to transfer your char/s to.

have a good one
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#79 - 2012-09-26 05:52:02 UTC
Veritas Luxmea wrote:
I currently use 2 accounts to dual-box 10/10s in Blood Raider nullsec (and all other plexes below 10/10, obviously).
My setup is a tank and a DPS.
Each is trained and fitted for its own role, in a way my tank doesn't do any DPS, and my DPS doesn't tank a flying chicken coming it's direction.

Target changing means the end of Plexing for me.

Since plexing is one of the things I do the most in EVE, I wonder if it will break my will to play.

It remains to be seen.


How about revisiting your setup to accommodate for these changes instead?

Don't you think the current AI is ridiculously idiotic- they keep shooting the same ship they can't break, while the clearly superior threat keeps popping them left and right?

.
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#80 - 2012-09-26 11:20:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Adigard
Roime wrote:

Don't you think the current AI is ridiculously idiotic- they keep shooting the same ship they can't break, while the clearly superior threat keeps popping them left and right?


Actually what I think it ridiculously idiotic is changing something that's worked perfectly for damn near a decade for absolutely no immediate gain (unless you benefit from one of the raft of unintended consequences this is going to bring) other than being able to add a little blurb on the patch notes.

Also, there's no actual proof that what you're assuming, is actually how they work... of course the test servers mysteriously vanished early on and won't be back until this weekend, so who knows.