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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#3001 - 2012-09-26 00:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Talon Karrade wrote:
Also the drake is fine the way it is does average dps for a bc and got good defense where as cane does excellent dps fair to average defense.


You're not looking at the combination of DPS, range and tank the Drake has.

Look at it this way:

A Harbinger with a full rack of heavy pulse and 3x Heat Sinks deals 479dps with Scorch at 23km+5 (guns only). Cap is tight if you don't fit an injector. It can fit a shield tank of around 53,000 EHP and still fit a point and MWD.

A Drake with Rage heavy missiles deals 462dps out to 76km (missiles only). It can, at the same time, sport a shield tank of almost 100,000 EHP and still fit a point and MWD.

It even has similar damage to a 3x Gyro Hurricane with a full rack of 425's and barrage.

You might be wondering, why not armor tank the Harbinger then? Unfortunately, it has even less EHP (or damage) then and doesn't even have enough CPU to fill its mids.


The heavy missile Drake does the DPS of close range guns at almost 80km. The Drake has tons of fitting room and can easily fill its slots, and has no cap issues. It has a tanking bonus on top of this. Other BCs have to give up slots to have anywhere near the Drake's range which gives them pathetic paper tanks, and even then they won't have anywhere near the Drake's damage.
Lili Lu
#3002 - 2012-09-26 00:51:15 UTC
Eckyy,

It's not worth responding to someone like Talon. He clearly decided to post on page 150 of a thread without reading the OP, and not bothering to read any of the posts in the previous 149 pages. Seriously, he posts some generalizations and doesn't even attempt to present any evidence, as if everything he is saying has not already been said hundreds of times.

The last dozen pages or so of this thread is filled with folks that don't want to examine numbers honestly. They often have no experience with any other ships because all they have ever needed in their usually short eve careers is Drake and Tengu. They simply cannot comprehend how any other ships have functioned and do function at this time. All they know is their HMs and the Drake. All they see is that those are being altered for the worse. They cannot even spot countervaling buffs. And they still just run to eft and go look at that autocannon dps, etc.

This thread has indisputably become a waste of time for reflexive whining. And it won't change until we have a new thread once the changes and exact numbers on these changes are put on the test server. Keep trying to reason with some of these folks if you want. But I predict you will just be wasting your time. Good luck to you if you choose to stay itt.Straight

Regards,

LiLu Smile
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#3003 - 2012-09-26 01:17:07 UTC
You're right of course, but the more I think about the proposed changes, the more I understand them, so responding to people actually helps me better grasp the situation.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#3004 - 2012-09-26 01:25:47 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
[quote=Thaddeus Eggeras]If you do the -20% to heavy missile damage, all heavy missile boats will become unless. I mean look at the DPS on a drake, on my main I have heavy missiles to 5, heavy missile spec to 5, BC to 5, and perfect missile skills and I still get just 437.7 DPS

While I think 20% is a bit strong of a nerf, what other ships using medium weapons get that much damage at anywhere close to heavy missile max ranges?[/

Proj Weapons do better DPS close to or as far as missiles, plus you get more than one damage type, and don't have to wait for your weapon to impacted, sounds good to me. Hybrids on the right ships hit MUCH further out and do good DPS also.
Lasers do pretty good DPS also, and don't need reloaded. Missiles also NEVER get criticial hits, and NEVER ALPHA. Missiles rarely do as good or better then their gun counter parts. That's why you ONLY see Drakes, and Tengus using heavy Missiles usually, and if you nerf them then no ships will anymore.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3005 - 2012-09-26 01:38:20 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:

Proj Weapons do better DPS close to or as far as missiles, plus you get more than one damage type, and don't have to wait for your weapon to impacted, sounds good to me. Hybrids on the right ships hit MUCH further out and do good DPS also.
Lasers do pretty good DPS also, and don't need reloaded. Missiles also NEVER get criticial hits, and NEVER ALPHA. Missiles rarely do as good or better then their gun counter parts. That's why you ONLY see Drakes, and Tengus using heavy Missiles usually, and if you nerf them then no ships will anymore.

If this is true you should have no issues posting a fit that does 400+ DPS at 70KM using medium projectiles. Keep in mind the paper DPS number will have to account for damage loss in falloff and posting the complete fit will nullify any arguments as to it being a comedy fit. Same with lasers. Alpha is volley damage which missiles have and it's not the best but not the worst by far.

You already point out that most completely discount using HAM's. And why do so if it's even semi reasonable to compare HML's with close range weapons while having a much larger engagement window then HAM's and still retaining most of the damage?

Your argument about doing more than one damage type is flawed. The more damage you apply to the single weakest resist the better, which is something that multi damage ammo cannot completely do and caldari missile ships will be able to do well if the trend of trading kinetic damage bonuses for ROF bonuses continues.
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#3006 - 2012-09-26 01:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
[quote=Thaddeus Eggeras]If you do the -20% to heavy missile damage, all heavy missile boats will become unless. I mean look at the DPS on a drake, on my main I have heavy missiles to 5, heavy missile spec to 5, BC to 5, and perfect missile skills and I still get just 437.7 DPS

While I think 20% is a bit strong of a nerf, what other ships using medium weapons get that much damage at anywhere close to heavy missile max ranges?[/

Proj Weapons do better DPS close to or as far as missiles, plus you get more than one damage type, and don't have to wait for your weapon to impacted, sounds good to me. Hybrids on the right ships hit MUCH further out and do good DPS also.
Lasers do pretty good DPS also, and don't need reloaded. Missiles also NEVER get criticial hits, and NEVER ALPHA. Missiles rarely do as good or better then their gun counter parts. That's why you ONLY see Drakes, and Tengus using heavy Missiles usually, and if you nerf them then no ships will anymore.


HML Drake: 414dps @ 84km
HML Drake w/Fury: 462dps @ 76km

Beam Harbinger w/Aurora: 305dps @ 54km + 10 falloff
720mm Hurricane w/Tremor: 278dps @ 52km + 22 falloff

305dps is not close to 462dps. 54km is not close to 76km.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#3007 - 2012-09-26 01:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Also I don't fly just Tengus or Drakes, I can and do FLY all T2 BCs and down and all races T1 BSs. The point is that if you pvp enough you will see Drakes get taken out by Canes and such ALL the time. Tengus are tough but ALL T3s are, Lokis and Legions are no joke either if fit right. -20% to Heavy Missiles, is just out of control. They also ARE the long range missiles so taking range away doesn't make any sense either. I mean a Cane easily does over 700DPS, a Brutix Does even more, and a Myrmidon does good DPS and is VERY hard to take out if fit right. The other thing is Caldari ships are slow, REAL slow, Gal, and most Amarr are faster then Caldari ships now, so getting to a drake isn't hard at all, and once you do in a Cane or such, you usually will win. Seems to me that people who just don't like Caldari or missiles, or don't want to train them want them nerfed. Learn to fight Caldari and you will 9 times out of 10 beat a Drake in a Cane or Brutix or such. I just want the nerfing to stop all together, it's getting out of hand. No ship is that much better then any other ship anymore. Every class of ship has it's race that it's best with. Interceptors have the Taranis, can do close to 300 DPS and is tough. Assault Ships well all the races now. destroyers the Thrasher, Interdictors the Sabre, HAS the Vaga, Sacrilege, Heavy Interdictors all I'd say, Logi Scimitar, guardian, Recon all, Battlecruisers Drake and Cane, Command Ships Damnation and claymore/Sleipnir. So please stop complaining about ships and just leave everything alone, and make new ships, new classes and etc. And 9 out 10 PvP battles are within 5km to 15km and again to complain about heavy Missiles is just crazy. If you REALLY think -20% is ok, you are crazy, and I think if you see that done you will see a lot of VERY upset pilots like the patch with Jita being attacked and many leaving the game. I will be VERY disappointed if CCP allows such a harsh nerf to happen, but I'll keep playing like before, I'll just have to put my Caldari ships in the closet to get dusky :^(

Thadd
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3008 - 2012-09-26 01:53:42 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Also I don't fly just Tengus or Drakes, I can and do FLY all T2 BCs and down and all races T1 BSs. The point is that if you pvp enough you will see Drakes get taken out by Canes and such ALL the time. Tengus are tough but ALL T3s are, Lokis and Legions are no joke either if fit right. -20% to Heavy Missiles, is just out of control. They also ARE the long range missiles so taking range away doesn't make any sense either. I mean a Cane easily does over 700DPS, a Brutix Does even more, and a Myrmidon does good DPS and is VERY hard to take out if fit right. The other thing is Caldari ships are slow, REAL slow, Gal, and most Amarr are faster then Caldari ships now, so getting to a drake isn't hard at all, and once you do in a Cane or such, you usually will win. Seems to me that people who just don't like Caldari or missiles, or don't want to train them want them nerfed. Learn to fight Caldari and you will 9 times out of 10 beat a Drake in a Cane or Brutix or such. I just want the nerfing to stop all together, it's getting out of hand. No ship is that much better then any other ship anymore. Every class of ship has it's race that it's best with. Interceptors have the Taranis, can do close to 300 DPS and is tough. Assault Ships well all the races now. destroyers the Thrasher, Interdictors the Sabre, HAS the Vaga, Sacrilege, Heavy Interdictors all I'd say, Logi Scimitar, guardian, Recon all, Battlecruisers Drake and Cane, Command Ships Damnation and claymore/Sleipnir. So please stop complaining about ships and just leave everything alone, and make new ships, new classes and etc.

Thadd

You've posted alot of generalizations but nothing to prove your point. Start posting usable fits that improve your position and stop comparing long range HML damage to short range turret output and we can have a discussion. I can say that as someone who has T2 heavy missiles trained and owns a tengu and a drake I hope no one is swayed by your baseless talk of Caldari hate when posted without the slightest shred of evidence or numbers.
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#3009 - 2012-09-26 01:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
I mean a Cane easily does over 700DPS, a Brutix Does even more, and a Myrmidon does good DPS and is VERY hard to take out if fit right.


The Drake also does this kind of DPS with HAMs. We're not talking about close range weapons though, and heavy missiles are not close range weapons.

Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The other thing is Caldari ships are slow, REAL slow, Gal, and most Amarr are faster then Caldari ships now, so getting to a drake isn't hard at all, and once you do in a Cane or such, you usually will win.


Ships are fit with named 10mn MWD:
Drake - 1038m/s, 11.2s align time
Hurricane - 1311m/s, 11.5s align time
Harbinger - 1138m/s, 12.2 align time

^ Interestingly, the Drake is actually the most agile battlecruiser. A difference of 1-200m/s means next to nothing. Remember that if these ships fit armor tanks they will be both slower AND less agile than a Drake.

Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Learn to fight Caldari and you will 9 times out of 10 beat a Drake in a Cane or Brutix or such. I just want the nerfing to stop all together, it's getting out of hand. No ship is that much better then any other ship anymore. Every class of ship has it's race that it's best with. Interceptors have the Taranis, can do close to 300 DPS and is tough. Assault Ships well all the races now. destroyers the Thrasher, Interdictors the Sabre, HAS the Vaga, Sacrilege, Heavy Interdictors all I'd say, Logi Scimitar, guardian, Recon all, Battlecruisers Drake and Cane, Command Ships Damnation and claymore/Sleipnir. So please stop complaining about ships and just leave everything alone, and make new ships, new classes and etc.


Fit HAMs on your Drake and you'll do just fine. In fact, you should already be fitting HAMs. Any ship fit with long range weapons will die if it gets tackled by a ship in its same class fit with close range weapons. Its absurd that in the case of the Drake, sometimes it still wins. A Drake with HAMs is on par with its peers when they fit close range guns. A heavy missile Drake is unquestionably superior in most metrics to its peers when they fit log range guns.

EDIT: FYI I like the Drake and I fly Drakes.
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3010 - 2012-09-26 01:56:56 UTC
The problem is that all those ships have competent close-range versions. The Drake gets to use the same 400 dps (furies are really useless against most targets) when fit for brawling.

If you're going to nerf heavy missiles (and you probably should), you need to buff HAMs to the point of general usability. Tengus will still be overpowered, but that's a separate issue related to the ship itself.
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#3011 - 2012-09-26 02:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Gorn Arming wrote:
The problem is that all those ships have competent close-range versions. The Drake gets to use the same 400 dps (furies are really useless against most targets) when fit for brawling.

If you're going to nerf heavy missiles (and you probably should), you need to buff HAMs to the point of general usability. Tengus will still be overpowered, but that's a separate issue related to the ship itself.


My 600+DPS (700+ overheated) HAM Drake with almost 100,000 EHP begs to differ. It even has MWD + point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with HAMs on a Drake.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#3012 - 2012-09-26 02:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Also I don't fly just Tengus or Drakes, I can and do FLY all T2 BCs and down and all races T1 BSs. The point is that if you pvp enough you will see Drakes get taken out by Canes and such ALL the time. Tengus are tough but ALL T3s are, Lokis and Legions are no joke either if fit right. -20% to Heavy Missiles, is just out of control. They also ARE the long range missiles so taking range away doesn't make any sense either. I mean a Cane easily does over 700DPS, a Brutix Does even more, and a Myrmidon does good DPS and is VERY hard to take out if fit right. The other thing is Caldari ships are slow, REAL slow, Gal, and most Amarr are faster then Caldari ships now, so getting to a drake isn't hard at all, and once you do in a Cane or such, you usually will win. Seems to me that people who just don't like Caldari or missiles, or don't want to train them want them nerfed. Learn to fight Caldari and you will 9 times out of 10 beat a Drake in a Cane or Brutix or such. I just want the nerfing to stop all together, it's getting out of hand. No ship is that much better then any other ship anymore. Every class of ship has it's race that it's best with. Interceptors have the Taranis, can do close to 300 DPS and is tough. Assault Ships well all the races now. destroyers the Thrasher, Interdictors the Sabre, HAS the Vaga, Sacrilege, Heavy Interdictors all I'd say, Logi Scimitar, guardian, Recon all, Battlecruisers Drake and Cane, Command Ships Damnation and claymore/Sleipnir. So please stop complaining about ships and just leave everything alone, and make new ships, new classes and etc.

Thadd

You've posted alot of generalizations but nothing to prove your point. Start posting usable fits that improve your position and stop comparing long range HML damage to short range turret output and we can have a discussion. I can say that as someone who has T2 heavy missiles trained and owns a tengu and a drake I hope no one is swayed by your baseless talk of Caldari hate when posted without the slightest shred of evidence or numbers.


PvPing is all the evidence you need. Drake never fight 40km out, and Guns and Missiles aren't the same thing, hints two completely different training groups. Thats something that makes EVE so great and different, not everything works just the same. If you wanna get into evidence missiles can be out ran, guns can not. If you shoot long range guns 150KM or 200KM they hit right away, if you shoot missiles 100km it takes around 10secs to hit, and the target could have warped by then. A Cane with 6 425s does over 600DPS, Opt is 1,949km and 22 falloff, pretty impressive. A Drake with 7 launchers does less DPS and doesn't get 120rds before reload, it gets gets 40.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3013 - 2012-09-26 02:03:15 UTC
Gorn Arming wrote:
The problem is that all those ships have competent close-range versions. The Drake gets to use the same 400 dps (furies are really useless against most targets) when fit for brawling.

If you're going to nerf heavy missiles (and you probably should), you need to buff HAMs to the point of general usability. Tengus will still be overpowered, but that's a separate issue related to the ship itself.

Underwhelming performance from HAM's isn't necessarily a good reason not to address issues with HML's. That stated this will give HAM's help with explosion radius/velocity for better damage application as well as being able to use mods and not just rigs for enhancing range. Additionally HAM's have the same benefit of no diminishing damage due to falloff.
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#3014 - 2012-09-26 02:05:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
PvP and all the evidence is there. Drake never right 40km out, and Guns and Missiles aren't thesame thingd, hints two completely different training groups. Thats something that makes EVE so great and different, not everything works just the same. If you wanna get into evidence missiles can be out ran, guns can not. If you shootlong range guns to 150KM or 200KM then hit right away, if you shoot missiles 100km it takes 10secs to 15secs to hit, and the target could have warped by then. A Cane with 6 425s does over 600DPS Opt is 1,949km and 22 falloff, pretty impressive. A Drake with 7 launchers does less DPS and doesn't get 120rds before reload, gets 40.



I agree HAMs don't easily apply full damage, but they also don't miss like guns. ADDITIONALLY, the Drake has a tanking bonus. CCP is addressing HAMs explosion radius and velocity anyway. They're fine.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#3015 - 2012-09-26 02:10:11 UTC
Just stop nerfing and make people learn to be clever. EVE is unforgiving, nerfing everything because people complain is just BS and that's the truth. NOTHING needs nerfed, nothing. Just buff the faction frigs a little so Assault Frigates don't rock them so easily and "tweak" the ASBs and let EVE be EVE. Some new ship types and classses be sweet though. You all can same they need nerfed or whatever but that is BS and that's just life. but keep complaining till everything is the same and EVE looses the factor that not ALL ships are the same and it becomes like every other MMO. That would be a sad sad day. LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE!!!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3016 - 2012-09-26 02:11:03 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

You've posted alot of generalizations but nothing to prove your point. Start posting usable fits that improve your position and stop comparing long range HML damage to short range turret output and we can have a discussion. I can say that as someone who has T2 heavy missiles trained and owns a tengu and a drake I hope no one is swayed by your baseless talk of Caldari hate when posted without the slightest shred of evidence or numbers.


PvP and all the evidence is there. Drake never right 40km out, and Guns and Missiles aren't thesame thingd, hints two completely different training groups. Thats something that makes EVE so great and different, not everything works just the same. If you wanna get into evidence missiles can be out ran, guns can not. If you shootlong range guns to 150KM or 200KM then hit right away, if you shoot missiles 100km it takes 10secs to 15secs to hit, and the target could have warped by then. A Cane with 6 425s does over 600DPS Opt is 1,949km and 22 falloff, pretty impressive. A Drake with 7 launchers does less DPS and doesn't get 120rds before reload, gets 40.

Guns and missiles not being the same is not an excuse for HML's outclassing medium turrets. Drakes can and do fight at range, and when they don't they shouldn't be using HML's. HAM's should be the choice there. At range they should be paired with tackle so their DPS advantage can still shine. And while you think 600DPS at 2KM in impressive (which becomes closer to 300 at the 22km+2optimal falloff point) it even more points out the issue as a drake does 66% of the damage at 60KM that a cane does at 2KM before it starts loosing DPS to falloff.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#3017 - 2012-09-26 02:14:32 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

You've posted alot of generalizations but nothing to prove your point. Start posting usable fits that improve your position and stop comparing long range HML damage to short range turret output and we can have a discussion. I can say that as someone who has T2 heavy missiles trained and owns a tengu and a drake I hope no one is swayed by your baseless talk of Caldari hate when posted without the slightest shred of evidence or numbers.


PvP and all the evidence is there. Drake never right 40km out, and Guns and Missiles aren't thesame thingd, hints two completely different training groups. Thats something that makes EVE so great and different, not everything works just the same. If you wanna get into evidence missiles can be out ran, guns can not. If you shootlong range guns to 150KM or 200KM then hit right away, if you shoot missiles 100km it takes 10secs to 15secs to hit, and the target could have warped by then. A Cane with 6 425s does over 600DPS Opt is 1,949km and 22 falloff, pretty impressive. A Drake with 7 launchers does less DPS and doesn't get 120rds before reload, gets 40.

Guns and missiles not being the same is not an excuse for HML's outclassing medium turrets. Drakes can and do fight at range, and when they don't they shouldn't be using HML's. HAM's should be the choice there. At range they should be paired with tackle so their DPS advantage can still shine. And while you think 600DPS at 2KM in impressive (which becomes closer to 300 at the 22km+2optimal falloff point) it even more points out the issue as a drake does 66% of the damage at 60KM that a cane does at 2KM before it starts loosing DPS to falloff.


Whatever allow CCP to nerf everything, and allow EVE to turn into all other MMOs, enjoy guys, tell me how fun it is then. -20% is too much plus taking it's range away from it so standard missiles will out shoot it. If you think that's ok, then I hope you enjoy your nerfs. I'd rather see new ships, and EVE being EVE, but whatever. I highly doubt what I say or others will make a differance. o/
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3018 - 2012-09-26 02:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Just stop nerfing and make people learn to be clever. EVE is unforgiving, nerfing everything because people complain is just BS and that's the truth. NOTHING needs nerfed, nothing. Just buff the faction frigs a little so Assault Frigates don't rock them so easily and "tweak" the ASBs and let EVE be EVE. Some new ship types and classses be sweet though. You all can same they need nerfed or whatever but that is BS and that's just life. but keep complaining till everything is the same and EVE looses the factor that not ALL ships are the same and it becomes like every other MMO. That would be a sad sad day. LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE!!!

People DO have to be clever. They can't just sit in optimum fits. They will have to adapt and change strategies, figure out new fits and methodologies.

And sometimes things do need nerfed. If one thing is more powerful than intended you address that rather than adjust the entire rest of the game upward, which is still effectively a nerf to the item not adjusted, and risk breaking things in hilarious new ways. This doesn't make things the same, just balanced. This way a wider array of ships and fits become viable.

Edit: To the above post, how are you upset with equating balancing to "being like every other MMO?" Why would we not expect CCP, like every other MMO maker, to maintain their game? How is it NOT good for them to ensure all races have viable ships in all size classes for the roles they ate to fulfill? And what makes you think we aren't getting new ships (we are) or that getting them in any way fixes issues with existing ships and weapons?
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3019 - 2012-09-26 02:18:40 UTC
Eckyy wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
PvP and all the evidence is there. Drake never right 40km out, and Guns and Missiles aren't thesame thingd, hints two completely different training groups. Thats something that makes EVE so great and different, not everything works just the same. If you wanna get into evidence missiles can be out ran, guns can not. If you shootlong range guns to 150KM or 200KM then hit right away, if you shoot missiles 100km it takes 10secs to 15secs to hit, and the target could have warped by then. A Cane with 6 425s does over 600DPS Opt is 1,949km and 22 falloff, pretty impressive. A Drake with 7 launchers does less DPS and doesn't get 120rds before reload, gets 40.


A HAM Drake does within 1% of the paper DPS of an RF EMP Hurricane, and it has an optimal of about the Hurricane's optimal + falloff.

I agree HAMs don't easily apply full damage, but they also don't miss like guns. ADDITIONALLY, the Drake has a tanking bonus. CCP is addressing HAMs explosion radius and velocity anyway. They're fine.

I'm getting 550 dps from a two-gyro armor 'cane with faction ammo and 460 dps from a HAM Drake with two BCUs. Maybe you should show some fits?

I'm going to laugh pretty hard if it turns out all your numbers are based on rage HAMs.
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#3020 - 2012-09-26 03:07:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Gorn Arming wrote:
Eckyy wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
PvP and all the evidence is there. Drake never right 40km out, and Guns and Missiles aren't thesame thingd, hints two completely different training groups. Thats something that makes EVE so great and different, not everything works just the same. If you wanna get into evidence missiles can be out ran, guns can not. If you shootlong range guns to 150KM or 200KM then hit right away, if you shoot missiles 100km it takes 10secs to 15secs to hit, and the target could have warped by then. A Cane with 6 425s does over 600DPS Opt is 1,949km and 22 falloff, pretty impressive. A Drake with 7 launchers does less DPS and doesn't get 120rds before reload, gets 40.


A HAM Drake does within 1% of the paper DPS of an RF EMP Hurricane, and it has an optimal of about the Hurricane's optimal + falloff.

I agree HAMs don't easily apply full damage, but they also don't miss like guns. ADDITIONALLY, the Drake has a tanking bonus. CCP is addressing HAMs explosion radius and velocity anyway. They're fine.

I'm getting 550 dps from a two-gyro armor 'cane with faction ammo and 460 dps from a HAM Drake with two BCUs. Maybe you should show some fits?

I'm going to laugh pretty hard if it turns out all your numbers are based on rage HAMs.


Looking at EFT, I made the mistake of forgetting to take drones off of my HAM Drake fit. My apologies. A 425mm Hurricane with RF EMP actually does about 20% more DPS than a HAM Drake (with Rage).

I'll correct my previous post.