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If EVE were real, how would local work?
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Atata Kaiko
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-09-25 16:11:28 UTC
I was reading through the commonly proposed ideas page and started to think how local would even work as it is, if EVE were real? If local were a short-range communication band that works in-system only, then okay, but then why would everyone just show up? If our ships have transponders, then I should also be able to tell who is flying what ship and pinpoint their location, since they must be continuously broadcasting a signal to show up in local -- which would counter what we see with cloaking devices. Also ships can't normally broadcast well through a station, so docked ships shouldn't show up, unless the station is rebroadcasting, in which case we'd know OUTSIDE of a station who is inside of it.

So perhaps it's not an IFF, but a gate log -- gates could record which ships pass through, since you are not able to jump cloaked. If you pass from one gate to the next, the second gate would announce to the first one that they've moved onto the next system and no longer in system. Okay, that works, but wouldn't be able to detect people who have jumped in on their own or logged off -- people should then always show up as being in-system until they leave system or not show up at all if they've bypassed the gates.

Obviously we know when they log off or jump-in, so it can't be a gate log, and if there were gate logs, why couldn't we access them before jumping into a potentially hostile situation (I know out of game, because it would spoil the little fun there is with gate camps -- I'm speaking "in game).

Thoughts? Has CCP ever attempted to explain how local works in cannon?
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-09-25 16:37:52 UTC
its a game

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Ulam Stanislaw
#3 - 2012-09-25 18:32:45 UTC
Local channel should work always just like in wormholes. The local in any other type of space is a joke.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2012-09-25 19:12:46 UTC
Ulam Stanislaw wrote:
Local channel should work always just like in wormholes. The local in any other type of space is a joke.


Wormholes are a joke

Stay there and be funny.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-09-25 19:14:01 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
its a game
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#6 - 2012-09-25 19:54:27 UTC
EvE is the future of Orwellian society.

The local chat is more or less working fine... in CONCORD controlled Empire space only ( >0.5 ) You enter a system, CONCORD takes note of your ID and adds you to the list of pilots in space. This is done by a 'local chat relay' in each system. It also hands off your ID to the next system when you jump to avoid scamming CONCORD ( in lore not practice ) The comm unit on the ships cannot be hacked, disabled or bypassed ( Think airplane black box ) This means that if there is a local chat relay active, you are in local chat with no exceptions !!

Now in low-sec there should be a 'Local chat relay' hanging in space somewhere doing this function. It can be targeted, fired upon and destroyed / off-lined like anything else. CONCORD will hit you with a sec-status loss but that's what happens when you blow up their stuff. Also instead of it blowing up it can be offline for X hours while it repairs or sever restart whatever comes first.

For null-sec the same mechanic applies but the 'local chat relay' is only avaliable based on the corp holding sovereignty in the system, making it safer for their own pilots if they spent the effort to put one up. Also a good mechanic to leave one off and only turn it on to surprise the enemy when they all show up in local!

Worm holes can go either way...

One important thing to remember and note, if EvE was real the reason local exists is so CONCORD can track everything you do and handout bounties and track kills among players. If there is no local chat relay operating in a system then belt / complex pirates will offer no bounty and there will be no kill mails sent out. There is no way to verify who shot what or killed who so nothing is payed out. Also there are no security loss or gain unless handed out by a NPC corp.

Bonus points:

If you jump from a system with a chat relay to one that does not have one, you stay in the first systems local chat for 10 mins while the comms timeout on handing off your ID.
Nalelmir Mahyisti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-09-25 23:27:45 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
its a game


This is why CCP added a completely realistic star parallax and pointed stargates toward the stars they actually go to with a complete spatially accurate galaxy map right? Cause its just a game.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#8 - 2012-09-26 00:04:30 UTC
I'm actually kind of hoping this is all some secret experimental training, and they're going to gather us up and send us to this place, being as they discovered it some time ago. The Shuttle is hopefully also a lie, and the governments have been covering up the advances in space technology that actually have the capability to send us to distant star systems like these ones.

Blink
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-09-26 00:09:18 UTC
If eve was real changes in the local channel would propogate at the speed of light. So if someone jumped in at a gate 1 AU away you would be alerted to his prescence in about 8 minutes, assuming he didn't move any closer during that time
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#10 - 2012-09-26 05:25:11 UTC
Good theory, but EVE relies on the Quantum Entanglement Theory for communication, so it is instant. What isn't though, is the speed of transmissions to your ship, and the range of those transmissions. Also, broadcasting clear across a Solar System would, I imagine, require a great deal of power, so in theory, it would be quite wasteful to do it for every instance of a ship entering, exiting, or flying about in space.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#11 - 2012-09-26 19:33:48 UTC
if eve were real, how would jump drives, stargates, warping, brain implants, jump clones, immortality, skill training and cloaking work? its a game, it doesent need to workUgh
WilliamMays
Stuffs Inc.
#12 - 2012-09-27 21:07:35 UTC
if eve were real, and you came to MY territory, you wouldn't be allowed to use MY gate

the intel tool we deserve, the intel tool we need
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-09-27 21:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN
Here's how local works.


When jumping into a system which Concord defends, even if it's just with gate guns, their scanners send out a pulse that tell your computers to present information on who the operator is.

Basically, a digital drivers license.

You ship is connected directly to you, and this is how they're able to present any information on you.


This is also how CONCORD knows a criminal i present in system.

Since high and low sec are the only areas present with CONCORD, then these are obviously the only systems with local.

Worm holes don't have CONCORD and neither does NULL sec, so neiter of them should have instant information on local.

However, if you attempt to send out a system wide communication (i.e. chat in local) then your identification is also presented with your communication.

So, in low/high sec CONCORD scans you in and this information is shared with everyone in system via local.(So, it's essentially a registry list)

In null/wh they only way to get this information is through open communication.


So, don't consider local to be a chat window. Consider it to be an open communications channel that presents the identity of anyone in system who is scanned in by CONCORD or anyone who attempt an open communication is system without CONCORD presence.

Is that better?
Scydris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-10-10 18:22:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Scydris
All of you are wrong though hellbound was close. When you request to use a gate, you are required to present certain information (the "digital driver's license") which the gate uses to determine who should be allowed through.

This also means that the gate is aware of who is in system and broadcasts this information to everyone else in system.

There is no need for people to be 'scanned in by CONCORD' because the gate itself already has that information, hence why local still works in null sec.



EDIT: this also explains why there is no local in wormholes. Without a gate there is no way to collect or transmit information about who has entered the system and pilots in local are only revealed when they use on-board systems to broadcast.
Isabella Montague
#15 - 2012-10-10 20:46:54 UTC
Nalelmir Mahyisti wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
its a game


This is why CCP added a completely realistic star parallax and pointed stargates toward the stars they actually go to with a complete spatially accurate galaxy map right? Cause its just a game.


yep. It's a just a game. Incredibly detailed in some ways, but takes creative lisence in others.
Bender 01000010
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-10-11 05:16:56 UTC
What if:

- you make local chat beacons (which authenticate, detect and show every player in - LOCAL chat - of the current solar system) to be an upgrade which can be purchased and can be anchored in your newly conquered solar systems

- you need to place more than one of this local chat beacons in a solar systems, in order to have a good coverage so you can detect and authenticate automatically any player in that solar systems. This have some flaws because there will be blind spots where you cannot be detected thus you can "disappear from local chat" as you left the solar system.

- you could scan with your covert ops frigate for some blind spots in a solar system, where you can warp in that area and disappear from local, because the local subspace beacon don't have coverage in certain areas (like behind planets, certain space clouds, etc).

- Black Ops ship will have the native ability to see the coverage of the local chat beacons on map and be able to warp to blind spots in order to disappear from local chat for some serious guerrilla action.

Later Edit:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
The few months I spent in a wormhole made it plain to me that Local Chat is not the limit to how different that part of the game is.

The OP's idea may be workable, but I need clarification on details.

How does a covops or other scanning pilot locate the safe spots you described?


hmm..
first you scan it and see where is no coverage from the local chat beacons;
then,let's say you send some kind of probe, launched from your probe launcher, you position it where is the blind spot, and you warp at the probe..there i fixed it.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-10-11 09:04:04 UTC
Nalelmir Mahyisti wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
its a game


This is why CCP added a completely realistic star parallax and pointed stargates toward the stars they actually go to with a complete spatially accurate galaxy map right? Cause its just a game.


More like why planets, moons etc. do not move in relation to their position in any given solar system. Because it is just a game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#18 - 2012-10-11 09:10:37 UTC
Andski wrote:

More like why planets, moons etc. do not move in relation to their position in any given solar system. Because it is just a game.



Doesn't the sun revolve around the earth anyway?

Also isn't the world flat and carried on the back of a giant turtle?

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#19 - 2012-10-11 13:45:14 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Andski wrote:

More like why planets, moons etc. do not move in relation to their position in any given solar system. Because it is just a game.



Doesn't the sun revolve around the earth anyway?

Also isn't the world flat and carried on the back of a giant turtle?


Actually, the world is a disk, and is carried on the backs of 4 elephants, which are in turn, riding on the back of a turtle. You simply forgot some important facts, is all.
Ammut Irvam
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-10-12 13:56:56 UTC
If EVE was real I'd be rich right now. All I got is $3 & no job atm.