EVE General Discussion

The only way anyone'll make systems actually have a population is to make it worth doing things in nullsec, as opposed to hisec. Hisec's way too lucrative to bother with the cockstab which is nullsec industry etc, so people don't bother, and people like this touval lysander seems to think it's because it's too easy or not enough to defend or something, I dunno.

He's certainly pretty good at attacking the problem from the wrong end, though, you have to give him that. I haven't seen many "revamp null" ideas this bad. The best would be when he realizes that this change would also **** over hisec pretty badly on multiple levels.

Heh. It'll hurt everyone else more than it'll hurt us.


Pity your suggestion makes absolutely no attempts to actually fix this. It doesn't address the sov system (which is what makes taking space hard, not ... POSes), it doesn't make nullsec worth living in, and it certainly doesn't make hisec cheaper to live in either. Especially not when we go derping around in nullsec, lowsec and hisec and blowing up POSes which aren't reinforced (or forcing people to reinforce their POSes or tear them down, hurting their income and making BPCs etc a scarcer resource).

But by all means, carry on, I want to see just how high up your suggestions can go on the suck-o-meter scale.

Oh but it does.

First we need to accept that there only 2 reasons to have the sov.

Production or strategic.

By forcing production within SOME of that wasted space to come under constant threat or be turned off simply to keep it is ultimately going to prove uneconomical for you to hold sov on it.

You'll drop sov. (I've always said this btw - I dont have to take it, you're going to vacate it)

Under such a scenario, larger alliances will simply çome back onto the high-value moons. No problem here.

But I bet (and it's why I have asked), there are quite a few small alliances who would be happy to take what measly offerings that now vacated system has to offer. Whether they can hold yaddy ya is going to be their problem. They have to be big enough or tough enough to do it. No change there either.

The emphasis is on forcing you to defend what you have in RT and from this, your offensive force is going to need to be smaller which lends itself to smaller alliances having half a chance to not be invaded also. (why would you try to take back what you gave up anyway?)

It also adds that if you're invading me, I could stop my entire production chain, and field my entire force in YOUR terittory and make you pull back. The tactical benefits are immense and opens up sov wars in a whole new way.

The blueblob will STILL work and can still be used to defend the smaller space you own.

But guerilla warfare is ALSO going to be a very effective deterrent against being invaded. atm that can't be used because I gotta stand around like a moron and wait for someone to press the pause button to commence activities.

So smaller alliances have a way to hurt the bigger guy and PREVENT the steamroller effect that sov currently is.

Invasion needs to be a dangerous proposition. It isn't because I can just flip back and defend AFTER I kill "whatever it is I am killing"...

It's not about TAKING territory, it's about making you reconsider what you keep. What happens to that space after is a matter for other players to decide. The empty space may even stay empty. Who knows.

But taking MOAR empty space is going to ultimately prove pointless regardless of how big you are.

Stop seeing this as a Goon bash. It isn't, it wasn't and it won't be if you decide to argue these points rationally instead of just brow beating me. I'm immune to forum abuse.

And WHERE is your invasion fleet?

PLEASE start understanding the resultant change to INVASION fleets this would create - not the defensive op.

Look beyond going F1 at a POS.

I'll repeat this line:-

Invasion needs to be a dangerous proposition. It isn't because I can just flip back and defend AFTER I kill "whatever it is I am killing"...

Oh oh oh I know let's make PI also require that you press the button every 5 minutes to reset the cycle.

But we don't need sov to mine the moons. One has little to do with the other.

So what if we drop sov in an empty system. We could still keep the moons there and still defend them.

And if keeping the mining POS there is such a hassle, then we can definitely make it a hassle for anyone else.



In the grand scheme of things, this just allows large alliances to easily deny little guys the ability to make money off a POS.

I totally see how it would make things "interesting". But while it would be interesting for people who can field capital fleets, it would be devastating to everyone else. It would hand nullsec power blocs an almost complete monopoly on moon mining and reactions, cap ship production and bpc/invention. Nullsec powers would be the only groups capable of keeping a POS up for more than a week.

oh ffs.

1) It's NOT about taking your sov.
2) It's about making you think twice about taking mine.

AND smaller alliance WILL come to null because >> see 2

- You WOULD dump some space.
- People WILL fill this space.
- You wont bother to take it back. Why would you?

AND I can use these same techniques to make you THINK about HOLDING said space even if I don't want it (shitz and gigglez).

The whole process is cyclical and interdependent. You're slicing isolated events into moot argument.

Also, read up on military strategy - especiialy the bit about offense being the best defense.

Go on. READ.

And yet you keep harping on about how I will lose space. Why?


Heh. No, it won't. In fact, it'll just encourage me to go **** in your back yard.


Nope, they won't.


Why would we dump some space, when it's not remotely linked to POSes? You keep saying this, but you keep avoiding telling us WHY we would "dump some space".


You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that since we will still be owning the systems, "the smaller alliances" will be completely unable to develop or do anything of worth in that system, and if they put up any POSes we'll be able to steamroll them at will. Or, if they put them in reinforced all day long, it'll just be an expensive bubble in space, which we could still just drop a full fleet of dreads on and blow out of the sky for *****'n'giggles.

Skills won't train unless you're logged in and staring at the skill window.

No you don't. You can now because you can drop back on the timer.

My OP pointed this out. I asked why it's empty. One of the frst comments is they are "on ops".

Now let me drop (let's say the same apocs you mentioned) onto 5 of your tech moons while you're trying to kick my butt a trillion miles away.

What are you going to do? How serious is it if I can kill your tech POS BEFORE you get back.

And you're missing the point. With full TZ coverage, you can produce away 24/7. I'm not disputing this. Being there is not to produce, being there is to defend it WHILE it produces (and subsequently VERY vulnerable).

That's a guns or butter choice you need to make.