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Best caldari BS for vanguard fleets and lvl4 missions without changing rigs?

Author
TheSchizo
Dios de Santo Corporation
#1 - 2011-10-12 16:41:21 UTC
Talking non-Golem here. Im looking for the best caldari BS for both vanguard fleets and lvl4 missions without changing rigs. Budget is not a problem.

Thanks in advance
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-12 16:45:46 UTC
Don't use any race's battleship for Vanguards. You want to use Cruiser-sized ships for them, for tracking and for tanking. The only exceptions are pirate-faction pimp mobiles, like the Vindicator and Nightmare.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

TheSchizo
Dios de Santo Corporation
#3 - 2011-10-12 16:50:28 UTC
Yeah ive heard that a few times, so its gotta be true. So drake(eventhough people hate them so much) for vanguards and a bs for lvl4?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-10-12 17:02:19 UTC
Battleships are not very useful for PVE right now, given the greater effective DPS numbers you can apply across various target types with a Drake, Nighthawk or Tengu. So far as Vanguards go, I don't know how you kids do it wherever you're from but in goon space we run armor fleets for Vanguards; so, we use Hurricanes for newbies, with preference on Legion > Guardian > Zealot > Loki > Hurricane. An ideal Vanguard fleet has 3 Guardians, 6 Legions, and 1 Loki.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#5 - 2011-10-12 19:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: JackStraw56
Cruises and torps are not really viable for vanguards so that leaves the Rokh among the caldari battleships, but its still not a great choice. The Tengu is a better option IMO, but most fleets prefer turret ships. Tengus are, of course, also quite good at blitzing level 4s.

You really should get 2 different ships though, one specialized for incursions and one for missions, they require different rigs.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-10-13 17:34:33 UTC
Agreed with the lack of useful caldari BS for incursions, because large missiles suck and the rohk doesn't have any damage bonuses which makes it very lackluster. If you want one ship that can effectively run both vanguards and lvl 4's, you want a tengu, because if you are putting on 2 rigor and 1 flare rig, you can keep that rig setup for both lvl 4's and for vans. The subsystems are also mostly the same, and you use 4 damage mods for each. Example fits:

Note, ment to be run with fleet booster, if there isn't one available drop a painter for an invuln, and if you are feeling too squishy then maybe a second mid for an extender.
[Tengu, Incursion Vanguard]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Explosion Dampening Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

for lvl 4's, you generally go with this. Note, you do have to swap a subsystem, but that isn't a big deal, and you can pimp the tank a bit if you need to.
[Tengu, Heavy]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Medium Shield Booster II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

-Arazel
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-13 18:13:58 UTC
Just curious, why are there all these shield fits? Our alliance and coalition uses nothing but armor for vanguards. Why is there this huge disparity between the two communities? Are vanguards different where you run them or something?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Amanda R
Drifting Falling
#8 - 2011-10-13 18:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda R
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Just curious, why are there all these shield fits? Our alliance and coalition uses nothing but armor for vanguards. Why is there this huge disparity between the two communities? Are vanguards different where you run them or something?

Assuming you're asking "why do most highsec incursion runners favour shield-tanked battleships?" and not "why are you posting shield-tanked Tengu fits?", the answer is that shield fleets of moderately pimped turret BS that are fit for minimum tank and maximum DPS/utility (read: plenty of webs and sensor boosters) do 80-100% more damage than AHAC-type T3s and don't have issues applying it quickly to the NPCs found in VGs. Also, most highsec carebears/carebear alts are trained for shield tanking ships.

Your T3s might have an edge in NCOs, I'll give you that. However, I daresay part of the reason you favour cruiser-sized ships is that you can pack lots of them into a single carrier when the next incursion spawns rather than having to make several jumps to ferry peoples' battleships around.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-10-13 19:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Just curious, why are there all these shield fits? Our alliance and coalition uses nothing but armor for vanguards. Why is there this huge disparity between the two communities? Are vanguards different where you run them or something?


Couple things here: One, the OP is asking for Caldari BS(s) which are generally shield tanked (and everyone is also assuming the OP can fly other caldari ships which are also generally shield tanked). Two, no one in this thread other than you has stated a preference for shield tanking over armor tanking. Three, given that incursion fits generally go for DPS/resists/buffer > all else, why not use shields as a preference for it since they continue to naturally regenerate (something armor cannot do and is compounded further by incursion fits not including self repair mods) after you're done being targetted by the incursion ships and your fleet's logi must now turn their attention to the next guy being targetted? Also, shields mods do not take away valuable low slots from dps mods, something armor tanking does do.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-10-13 19:16:47 UTC
Thank you both for those quick and informative responses! I wish there was more for me to say here, but I really am ignorant of the game mechanics involved here and pretty much just need to take your word that you know what you're saying. Both of your points make sense, and the conclusions you draw seem reasonable from my perspective. Thanks again! I was always curious.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-10-13 19:28:47 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Why is there this huge disparity between the two communities? Are vanguards different where you run them or something?


The highsec shield incursion community is two or three times larger than the armor one and is battleship heavy for blitzing OTAs. The only cruisers in the "ideal" fleet are logis.
Chum Tea
Steuerparadies San Matar
#12 - 2011-10-13 22:11:00 UTC
TheSchizo wrote:
Budget is not a problem.


Why not just get two ships then?
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#13 - 2011-10-14 08:23:14 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Why is there this huge disparity between the two communities? Are vanguards different where you run them or something?


The highsec shield incursion community is two or three times larger than the armor one and is battleship heavy for blitzing OTAs. The only cruisers in the "ideal" fleet are logis.


Not completely true...an dps/web Loki with an interdiction maneuvers link will get into a fleet pretty quick, as will a sleipnir.

thhief ghabmoef

Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-10-16 08:54:24 UTC
buy 2 different ships.

Tengu outperforms the Nighthawk handily for sub-BS platforms. It also outdpses a cruise raven when you dont factor in the raven's drones (which wont add that much dps in an incursion). the tengu will also have better damage projection on the cruisers. The raven has more ehp, but the tengus smaller sig means it will take less damage overall and be easier on the logi.
TheSchizo
Dios de Santo Corporation
#15 - 2011-10-16 19:34:24 UTC
Thanks guys