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Receiving nerfs gracefully
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#21 - 2012-09-25 18:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
I only fear they pull another incarna or unified inventory on us. Blatantly going by any user feedback "because we don't believe you".

I'm not against change. Mining is like sticking forks in your eyeballs then trying to swim to Mars. Missioning is just a tad bit less worse, you just don't know your balls get electrocuted until its too late.

I'm against change for change sake. Pushing it through no matter what. Worst thing is if you have "experts" onboard telling you stuff like Aurum, gold ammo and what not is good. Hey, at least we all know the "experts" got incarna 1000% wrong. Instead of making money CCP lost money.

I don't mind nerfs, some worked out pretty well, some where just needed like ludicrous speed. I just think and feel at times they are handed out by people not playing the game but playing numbers.

Hey remember CCP Nohz? Who said you just could target paint titans? Lol
Dalketh
DRRUSSEL
#22 - 2012-09-25 19:08:52 UTC
James 315 wrote:
I think everyone who's read my posts knows which category I fall into (the good one). Smile



Egotist: Thinking everything is about them. Roll
Tarinara
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-09-25 19:18:05 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
You forgot...
6. The "its just a game, whatever" group. Those who accept whatever CCP does with relative indifference until they get bored and go play something else. This group does not complain when something is changed, they do not proclaim that they're unsubbing, they just do it without a word, never to be heard from again.

This! It's just *another game* on the internet and when it gets to tedious - move on. Although all the QQ'ers and trolls ARE lots of fun to read.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#24 - 2012-09-25 19:24:24 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Over the almost 3 years I've been playing, and the various rebalancing passes or other changes I've seen, I have noticed a few types of responses from the playerbase whose playstyle is being nerfed. Which one are you?

1. The first (and loudest) is the rage train, or tears of unfathomable sadness. Signature phrases are overblown, inflammatory, or uninformed ("Eve is dying", "I am unsubbing my 37 accounts", "You killed small gang PvP, gj", etc). The people with this response opposed the nerf thoroughly, going as far as recommending a buff instead. Some of them even resort to personal attacks ("CCP are goons in disguise / CCP doesn't play their own game / You're just a CCP fanboi/alt!").

2. The schadenfreude enthusiasts, or trolls. Mostly make fun of group #1, and try to rile them up more, for purposes of collection of the tears of unfathomable sadness. Signature phrases include "posting in QQ thread", "umad" and similar.

3. The people who hate everything forever, or bittervets. These people will never be happy, and remind everyone of it. Signature phrases such as "It's about time tech got nerfed, what sort of drugs has CCP been on for all these years?" or "Why is the Tristan the T1 drone boat, but the Ishkur the T2 one?! This is an outrage!" Their arguments are typically a bit more well founded than #1, but the mad is strong with these ones, so #2 likes having fun with them too.

4. The opponent/skeptic offers intelligent discussion and contributions before and after the nerf. Accepts CCP's expertise and authority over Eve, adapts to change, but doesn't necessarily like it -- and expresses this via respectful discourse. Example: "Don't be so quick to judge titan tracking by the titan hitting MWDing, TP'ed Drakes, which are bigger than carriers," or "As we [opponents] anticipated, the nerf turned titans into little more than space taxis again; can we have a viable combat role for them?"

5. The supporter/enthusiast is very similar to #4, but holds the opposite position, arguing for why the nerf is a good idea and encouraging its implementation. Example: "It's ridiculous and unbalanced that a fleet of 30 people (albeit in titans) should be able to take on several hundreds of people and win, and goes against core Eve principles" or "Glad to see sanity return to fleet battles, thanks CCP!"


Every nerf seems to trigger varying amounts of composition of each of these groups, but #4 and #5 are usually (at least apparently) woefully small in number. How can we as players, forumgoers, mods, or devs (whoever is reading this) encourage more of that, and less of #1-3?

(Technically these groups show up in all changes, not just nerfs, but nerfs have the most pronounced effect because of someone 'losing out')



You forgot one type - the people who vote with their feet. In general, nerfs are always a bad idea. In eve terms, you have some player who has invested time, sp, and isk into being good in a certain ship, then ccp comes along and pulls the rug from under them. If the change is big enough a certain percentage of these folk are going to say f-it! and just quit. Conversely, imo ccp is unlikely to ever pull in new subs because they rebalanced one ship against another. So every time ccp nerfs something it runs a risk of driving a percentage of their players away without gaining any new subs. Ccp would be much better getting out of the balancing business and simply trusting the sandbox.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Kinet
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-09-25 19:40:35 UTC
I think if CCP or the CSM did a better job of posting about the issues or in these threads it would reduce a lot of the #1 thru #3. I personally don’t feel any amount of posting on the forums will get CCP to change anything. It is only a small percentage of players who actually use the forums and only a subset of that posts opinions on changes. That sample size if really too small statistically speaking to make an accurate assessment of the players opinions.

Let me give you an example. I have over 4 mill SP in missiles and my main weapon (HM) is about to lose 20% of its damage and 25% of its range PLUS a module may now disrupt my missiles making them ineffective. On top of that the Thorax is getting more speed, better tracking and a new mid slot. As a Caldari pilot in FW who doesn’t want to fly the enemies ships, I’m a bit disappointed in this. Sadly, after making this point in the rage thread (No, I didn’t rage) I see no comment from CCP.

I think players get mad when they make a non-rage post and spell out their frustrations and CCP and the CSM provide no feedback. If one of them would simply post some math numbers and show me that the missile nerf was going to reduce my Caracal to be very close in damage to the new Thorax I could probably live with it. Sadly all I see from the Dev Blogs is missiles will now suck and Thorax will be OP. It is like instead of solving the Drake/Tengu issue, they just moved it over to the Thorax but instead of discussing it, they just throw it out there to see how much rage it will generate. This leaves many to think rage posts are necessary.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-09-25 19:49:57 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Varesk wrote:
You forgot one,

6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained.

Note how I mentioned non-ship specific nerfs as well, like the tech nerf. Other examples are nano nerf, incursion nerf, the coming FW iskfaucet nerf, etc.


7) Dont care, Have enough ISK.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#27 - 2012-09-25 19:51:47 UTC
Varesk wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Varesk wrote:
You forgot one,

6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained.

Note how I mentioned non-ship specific nerfs as well, like the tech nerf. Other examples are nano nerf, incursion nerf, the coming FW iskfaucet nerf, etc.


7) Dont care, Have enough ISK.

Care enough to post on forums. #2 or #3, not sure

<3

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-09-25 19:55:24 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Varesk wrote:
You forgot one,

6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained.

Note how I mentioned non-ship specific nerfs as well, like the tech nerf. Other examples are nano nerf, incursion nerf, the coming FW iskfaucet nerf, etc.


7) Dont care, Have enough ISK.

Care enough to post on forums. #2 or #3, not sure

<3


8) Dont care, Stopped reading at #1.
Maximillian Dragonard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-09-25 19:59:47 UTC
I prefer to just be nerf proof. Twisted

Spent forever training all races, but it was well worth the time. Cool

A given favorite might take a hit, but at least I've always got a fallback position!

Wut?!
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