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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Why is there no first-person or cockpit view?

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dholl trip
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-09-24 14:01:14 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:

OP seems to be the sort who would walk onto a hockey pitch and demand to know why he can't use a baseball bat.


That is even worse than the swords & lightsabers analogy.
dholl trip
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-09-24 14:03:00 UTC
Tialano Utrigas wrote:

Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.


Indeed!
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#43 - 2012-09-24 14:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Athechu
dholl trip wrote:
ISD Athechu wrote:
Cleaned up some posts that weren't on topic.


I don't remember any off-topic posts. And the ones about "there's the door" and ones going on about the story still remain.



I'm not here to censor (unless I have to due to rules violation) i'm here to keep order and things on topic. If you feel a post should be looked at please go ahead and report it and we will take a look at it.
dholl trip wrote:

ISD Athechu wrote:

Also if you want a feature to be added or looked at and discussed please take it to the Features & Ideas section.


Can trial members now post elsewhere?


Not to my knowledge but if the topic goes that way I will have to put it in the proper section for that type of discussion. Since Developers do read the forums and I know a few do read the F&I section best just make it easy to find the "EVE Should have XYZ" threads instead of hunting all over the forums for them.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-09-24 14:20:14 UTC
Tialano Utrigas wrote:
Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.

For me, its not a bad concept...its just a new one.
You wouldn't see much more than a piece of hull through such a limited field of vision and some simulated flashes god knows where around your ship, and simulated explosions in some direction, so I tend to prefer the zoomed out camera drone option where you actually see the engagement than a first-person peek through a loophole with stuff happening somewhere around.
Would be like being a kiddo in a packed crowd of adults at a fireworks show, you see flashes and hear splosions, but miss all the good stuff until one drags you up to sit you on their shoulders.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
dholl trip
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-09-24 14:39:18 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:

I'm not here to censor (unless I have to due to rules violation) i'm here to keep order and things on topic. If you feel a post should be looked at please go ahead and report it and we will take a look at it.


No, I think the thread's been quite good, even with the odd silly comment. Maybe the posts you deleted were ones I didn't see anyway.



ISD Athechu wrote:

Not to my knowledge but if the topic goes that way I will have to put it in the proper section for that type of discussion. Since Developers do read the forums and I know a few do read the F&I section best just make it easy to find the "EVE Should have XYZ" threads instead of hunting all over the forums for them.


Feel free to move it if you think it's a good idea. I won't be able to post myself, but I don't have anything left to add, anyway.
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs
Out of the Blue.
#46 - 2012-09-24 14:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tialano Utrigas
Sin Pew wrote:
Tialano Utrigas wrote:
Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.

For me, its not a bad concept...its just a new one.
You wouldn't see much more than a piece of hull through such a limited field of vision and some simulated flashes god knows where around your ship, and simulated explosions in some direction, so I tend to prefer the zoomed out camera drone option where you actually see the engagement than a first-person peek through a loophole with stuff happening somewhere around.
Would be like being a kiddo in a packed crowd of adults at a fireworks show, you see flashes and hear splosions, but miss all the good stuff until one drags you up to sit you on their shoulders.


Agreed, hence why it would be optional.

I have to say though, without going through all the epic scenarios I can think of, the Inferno trailer would look rather good in FPV, racing past your fleet's missile boats in a Rifter with friendly cruise missiles brushing past you, while booting up your MWD to close in on that monstrousity that is quickly filling up your HUD.

We can all dream of what we percieve to be great. But one of those dreams might be percieved to be great by another 100,000 subs.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#47 - 2012-09-24 15:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Tialano Utrigas wrote:

Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.


Some ballpark numbers as to why first person does not work as you think it would:

A 5 km long object (capital ship) from 20 km away (typical practical tackle frigate orbit distance) in a typical 90 degree FOV (90-110 degrees is what is usually used for first-person views) shows up as 1/8 the lengh/height of your screen. That is, it takes up 1/64 of your screen. That is hardly impressive. To make it look impressive, you'd have to use an absurdly low angle for the FOV, which would feel like the equivalent to using a high power telescope to watch the flight of a fly several blocks away.

In that same situation, a 20 km orbit is completed by a frigate (going at 3.5 km/s MWD speed) in a little over half a minute. That is a little over 60 miles in that short amount of time. At that sort of speed, there really isn't anything interesting to see. Things up close zip by too quickly, and things far either appear small because you're passing them so quickly, or don't appear at all because you're too far away.

For comparison to the Star Wars context where first person view works for fighters: the Millenium Falcon moves at 300 m/s (at max subwarp combat speed), is 34 m long, and against equivalently sized targets has an operational combat range of less than 1 km. Compare that to, say, a Rifter, which moves at 400 m/s at base speed (no propulsion mods on), is 120 m long, and whose weapons can be reliably used up to 6-7 km away (at least). With the former, things are up close enough and slow enough to conceivably see things. With the latter, not so much.

As some last evidence, take this screenshot, which I took during a corp frigate tournament. The distance between the two frigates was about 5 km. See how tiny the second one looks in the distance? First person would be incredibly underwhelming.

tl;dr: Eve involves flying really fast through really empty space, and shooting things really far away, which would look really boring in first person.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-09-24 15:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cass Lie
True, but all you people try to force first person view on the existing mechanics. Should first person view be used, all the game mechanics would have to be completely different (likely more twitch based, etc.). It was simply a fundamental design decision taken by CCP a very long time ago. Having a space sim with first person view, manual turret control and such things together with deep player driven economy and other sandbox features is entirely concievable. It may even do some things better than EVE, but it will definitely be worse at others.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2012-09-24 15:43:25 UTC
Baltara wrote:
In EvE you are not in a cockpit. You are in a pod full of goo.

EvE is more systems management than first person twitch shooter.



According EVE fiction, we are actually in a bridge like a real ship and there are npc workers on your ship. We should have a captain's chair and a "make it so" butan

FC, what do?
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs
Out of the Blue.
#50 - 2012-09-24 16:12:51 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

A 5 km long object (capital ship) from 20 km away (typical practical tackle frigate orbit distance) in a typical 90 degree FOV (90-110 degrees is what is usually used for first-person views) shows up as 1/8 the lengh/height of your screen. That is, it takes up 1/64 of your screen. That is hardly impressive. To make it look impressive, you'd have to use an absurdly low angle for the FOV, which would feel like the equivalent to using a high power telescope to watch the flight of a fly several blocks away.


You've taken this a bit too seriously my friend.

Didn't say it would work with current mechanics.but could look good in certain situations. I have to say, Frig vs Frig would look pretty boring, off the back of your screenie.

I did not mean for it to sound like a combat flight/space simulation; instead a different view point with some snassy HUD graphics and the ability to pan an on board ship camera, where you could really appreciate the scale of the larger ships and what is going on around you. That is not a change in mechanics, and if you swich to HUD view and all you see is a screen full of Capital Hull, then switch back Smile
Keno Skir
#51 - 2012-09-24 19:41:08 UTC
dholl trip wrote:
Tialano Utrigas wrote:

Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.


Indeed!


You wouldnt be able to see the ship you were orbiting from the bridge, thats in the front if it exiats at all. Judging by the graphics anyway.

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Gun Gal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-09-25 19:46:18 UTC
Eve will not have first person flying.

Deal with it.

Your the kind that will cry at everything
dholl trip
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-09-25 23:05:34 UTC
Gun Gal wrote:
Eve will not have first person flying.

Deal with it.

Your the kind that will cry at everything



Why is there always some primitive troll who tries to derail an otherwise decent thread?


This thread had finished naturally, with everything sensible being said. You should question your worth to the community here if all you do is post random nonsense.

My advice: read threads first before posting. If you must target the OP, then argue your point coherently. Remember this is a public board. Dozens of people have read your post now and will likely not take you seriously any more.

Remember that you are the maker of your own reputation...and thus, your destiny. Don't make it worse than it needs to be, for that would just be stupid.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#54 - 2012-09-25 23:27:36 UTC
dholl trip wrote:

Why is there always some primitive troll who tries to derail an otherwise decent thread?

Because.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#55 - 2012-09-26 10:03:13 UTC
Keith Gavner wrote:
You seem a little stubborn so I'll get into details.

The first thing is that eve is not a game where you fly around in a shiny ship. It's a universe filled with paranoid socially inapt psychopath and all of them are here to get you.


Correction: a lot of the most dangerous ones actually have pretty good social skills.

The socially "inapt" ones complain about blobs Pirate

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-09-26 12:02:15 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Keith Gavner wrote:
You seem a little stubborn so I'll get into details.

The first thing is that eve is not a game where you fly around in a shiny ship. It's a universe filled with paranoid socially inapt psychopath and all of them are here to get you.


Correction: a lot of the most dangerous ones actually have pretty good social skills.

The socially "inapt" ones complain about blobs Pirate
You guys forgot schizophrenia, with so many people having alts, this got to be related... OMG WE GOTZ ALTS!!!!!

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-09-26 15:24:59 UTC
enable the advanced camera settings, press cntrl + F9. you will get your blissful flying. or you can learn eve and pvp and have a lot more fun. but to each their own, I'm not judging.
dholl trip
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-09-26 16:23:16 UTC
Casirio wrote:
enable the advanced camera settings, press cntrl + F9. you will get your blissful flying. or you can learn eve and pvp and have a lot more fun. but to each their own, I'm not judging.



Of course I tried that, but I'm not flying in first-person, I'm just moving an external camera in first-person. There's a significant difference. The physics are off for a start.

Like I wrote earlier: I believe all of you when you say Eve is an excellent experience. But I thought it was a different kind of space game. It's just not what I'm looking for.

That doesn't mean that if I played it again for a few hours it wouldn't seduce me still. One related example was the first time I played Mirror's Edge. I didn't like it, and couldn't get past the idea that the game would be much better in third-person view, like the Tomb Raider games I was familiar with. I put the game down, dismissed it, and only played it again when I won an Ebay auction for €1 for the PS3 version. The second time I played it I got seduced by the first-person platforming perspective...it won me over so much that I think I may even prefer it to the Tomb Raider platforming perspective.

So there's a precedent to the idea that I could grow to enjoy the Eve perspecive more than the X perspective.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-09-26 17:40:43 UTC
dholl trip wrote:
Casirio wrote:
enable the advanced camera settings, press cntrl + F9. you will get your blissful flying. or you can learn eve and pvp and have a lot more fun. but to each their own, I'm not judging.



Of course I tried that, but I'm not flying in first-person, I'm just moving an external camera in first-person. There's a significant difference. The physics are off for a start.


yeah.. I said nothing about first person. Just saying that is the closet you'll get to site seeing while you cruise in your spaceship....
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-09-27 00:03:00 UTC
dholl trip wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

What I find odd. Only after 90 minutes you already decided that you don't like EVE. I would suggest to at least play out your trial account. Give it 14 days to learn a bit about EVE and how it works. Maybe at the end of those 2 weeks you might have changed your mind.


How did you know it was 90 minutes? Does it say it in my profile?

You're quite right that I've barely gave the game a chance...all I did was leave the dock and flew towards ships, stations, belts and warped & jumped to various systems...docked at another station but it was all done off-screen. In X the docking, as you know, is done manually, you experience it all.

Basically I was really in the mood for some cosmic blissful spaceflight and wrongly assumed I would get it from Eve. After 90 minutes I realised that without my preferred first-person view I wasn't going to find what I was looking for. No doubt Eve offers something else, but I'm just not looking for it.


Kimimaro Yoga wrote:

Basically a front-first-person view would be useless or actively detrimental in a large % of Eve combat situations. The places where it would contribute to combat would be relatively small. CCP deliberately doesn't want Eve to be run like a fighter sim. So no cockpit view, sorry.


Fair point well made.



Man, how do you not like the space vistas in this game. Some of these Nebula are amazing!!

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