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Pay Per Kill

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The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#21 - 2012-09-25 15:11:20 UTC
SIR YOUR PROPOSAL WOULD RESULT IN CONSTANT AWOXING

OF ME

BY MYSELF
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#22 - 2012-09-25 15:12:06 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Step 1: Grind 2 Alts down to -10.0, which would take approximately 1 minute.

Step 2: Have said 2 alts repeatedly gank each other over and over and over.

Step 3: Roll around in infinite ISK.


Should probably reread the OP and realize that's not the case. Since ship cost would be factored in to the bounty price, if you would do that, it wouldn't be infinite isk but you will end up losing a **** ton.

However in the same way insurance is crap, so is this. The last thing this game needs is another isk faucet.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#23 - 2012-09-25 15:13:30 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Step 1: Grind 2 Alts down to -10.0, which would take approximately 1 minute.

Step 2: Have said 2 alts repeatedly gank each other over and over and over.

Step 3: Roll around in infinite ISK.


Exactly what would happen, no doubt about it.

Rixx - Although your idea is understood, it is nigh unworkable in this game due to the exploit potential. I have no answer for you on how to fix things, I know the Bounty System also sucks, but it's all we have at this time.

Being able to "cede" kill rights to another player might have some positive impact.

o7

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Rixx Javix
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#24 - 2012-09-25 15:15:36 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Rixx Javix wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:


Sorry, but there needs to be a better option as this one has no value.



Well there ya go, four posts later and the idea is already dead in the water. And I used to promise myself I'd never post on the forums...


Well, why mot address the concerns outlined or work harder to improve the offering. For starters, make it impossible to receive payout from rookie ship kills. That may not be too hard to code.

Suggest that for every x isk earned in this manner, sec status is raised y. A pirate will maintain their negative status as they attack non isk generating targets, but exploiters may have more hoops to jump through. However this wouks have to be balanced well to prevent people exploiting it to rep sec status.

Also, perhaps kills in low/nul could work in an opposite manner. Perhaps bounties to pirates for killing hi sec people could come from pirate factions. In other words, killing my 5 sec status in low or nul would net a person with negative sec a reward. Probably a bad idea and exploitable, but at least I am attempting to counter my own arguments and improve the idea than just lamenting the negative responses.



Sorry, I was being sarcastic and perhaps my attempt didn't go over well.

But thanks for helping to counter your own argument. Your ideas are well considered and I think they would also work to curb exploits. We already receive rewards from killing and those rewards are not generally exploited, those rewards come in the form of loot and salvage. This simply adds an additional low-percentage reward on top of those. Certainly, any system is open to exploitation, but mitigating that via low rewards and it seems to me that most people would choose already existing higher reward exploits to waste their time on.

http://eveoganda.blogspot.com
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#25 - 2012-09-25 15:15:40 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Step 1: Grind 2 Alts down to -10.0, which would take approximately 1 minute.

Step 2: Have said 2 alts repeatedly gank each other over and over and over.

Step 3: Roll around in infinite ISK.


Should probably reread the OP and realize that's not the case. Since ship cost would be factored in to the bounty price, if you would do that, it wouldn't be infinite isk but you will end up losing a **** ton.

However in the same way insurance is crap, so is this. The last thing this game needs is another isk faucet.


You're neglecting that in-game value is highly fluid, and those "total value" stats tend to be extremely inaccurate.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#26 - 2012-09-25 15:17:33 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Step 1: Grind 2 Alts down to -10.0, which would take approximately 1 minute.

Step 2: Have said 2 alts repeatedly gank each other over and over and over.

Step 3: Roll around in infinite ISK.


Should probably reread the OP and realize that's not the case. Since ship cost would be factored in to the bounty price, if you would do that, it wouldn't be infinite isk but you will end up losing a **** ton.

However in the same way insurance is crap, so is this. The last thing this game needs is another isk faucet.


Ah, buy rookie ships are now purchasable on the market. Since ship value would have to ne market based, even rookie ships woukd have value. It would be low gain, but sitting in a smartbombing battleship and warping rookie alts into it would slowly generate free isk. Set in a nul station with med bay, warp to BS, pop, lather, rinse, repeat.
Rixx Javix
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#27 - 2012-09-25 15:18:04 UTC
Alua Oresson wrote:
I support this idea. *forms a 20 man null sec gang to gate camp and farm pilots*


Don't you already do that? Plus 20 pilots splitting the low-margin reward seems like a waste of time. Perhaps a ceiling on the number of pilots, once exceeded, doesn't pay out?

http://eveoganda.blogspot.com
Rixx Javix
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#28 - 2012-09-25 15:19:28 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Step 1: Grind 2 Alts down to -10.0, which would take approximately 1 minute.

Step 2: Have said 2 alts repeatedly gank each other over and over and over.

Step 3: Roll around in infinite ISK.


Should probably reread the OP and realize that's not the case. Since ship cost would be factored in to the bounty price, if you would do that, it wouldn't be infinite isk but you will end up losing a **** ton.

However in the same way insurance is crap, so is this. The last thing this game needs is another isk faucet.


Ah, buy rookie ships are now purchasable on the market. Since ship value would have to ne market based, even rookie ships woukd have value. It would be low gain, but sitting in a smartbombing battleship and warping rookie alts into it would slowly generate free isk. Set in a nul station with med bay, warp to BS, pop, lather, rinse, repeat.



So Rookie Ships are exempt. Done.

http://eveoganda.blogspot.com
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#29 - 2012-09-25 15:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Rixx Javix wrote:
......

So, sec status is a multiplier applied to the base value of the ship destroyed ( minus the drop ) times the tax rate applied from CONCORD ( or other party tbd ). So a -10 ship valued at 250,000,000 ISK returns 2,500,000,000 in value, divided by a Tax Rate of say, 95%, which returns 12,500,000 divided by the number of pilots on the kill - say three - and each pilot receives a kill reward of 4,166,668 ISK.
.....

First, a math error: 2,500,000,000 taxed at 95% gives you 125,000,000. Given the above case the payout is half the ship value. Add in the insurance to the victim and its quite close to an infinite farmable ISK source. To push it over the edge:

Find a ship that has very few trades on the market.
Get some, trade them back and forth between your alts at silly high prices.
Wait for the automatic value estimator to average in your trades, artificially inflating the ship price.
Put a -10 alt in the ships, blow them up.

Conclusion: If you don't like "grinding for ISK", don't do it, purchase a PLEX. That's what they are there for.

Edits: fixed wording on the math.

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Rixx Javix
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#30 - 2012-09-25 15:25:38 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Rixx Javix wrote:
......

So, sec status is a multiplier applied to the base value of the ship destroyed ( minus the drop ) times the tax rate applied from CONCORD ( or other party tbd ). So a -10 ship valued at 250,000,000 ISK returns 2,500,000,000 in value, divided by a Tax Rate of say, 95%, which returns 12,500,000 divided by the number of pilots on the kill - say three - and each pilot receives a kill reward of 4,166,668 ISK.
.....

First, a math error: 95% of 2,500,000000 is 125,000,000. Given the above case the payout is half the ship value. Add in the insurance to the victim and its quite close to an infinite farmable ISK source. To push it over the edge:

Find a ship that has very few trades on the market.
Get some, trade them back and forth between your alts at silly high prices.
Wait for the automatic value estimator to average in your trades, artificially inflating the ship price.
Put a -10 alt in the ships, blow them up.

Conclusion: If you don't like "grinding for ISK", don't do it, purchase a PLEX. That's what they are there for.



Uh, actually a 95% tax rate means a .05% multiplier. In other words CONCORD KEEPS 95% and all you get is 5%.
Math error on you my friend.

http://eveoganda.blogspot.com
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#31 - 2012-09-25 15:28:59 UTC
Rixx Javix wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Rixx Javix wrote:
......

So, sec status is a multiplier applied to the base value of the ship destroyed ( minus the drop ) times the tax rate applied from CONCORD ( or other party tbd ). So a -10 ship valued at 250,000,000 ISK returns 2,500,000,000 in value, divided by a Tax Rate of say, 95%, which returns 12,500,000 divided by the number of pilots on the kill - say three - and each pilot receives a kill reward of 4,166,668 ISK.
.....

First, a math error: 95% of 2,500,000000 is 125,000,000. Given the above case the payout is half the ship value. Add in the insurance to the victim and its quite close to an infinite farmable ISK source. To push it over the edge:

Find a ship that has very few trades on the market.
Get some, trade them back and forth between your alts at silly high prices.
Wait for the automatic value estimator to average in your trades, artificially inflating the ship price.
Put a -10 alt in the ships, blow them up.

Conclusion: If you don't like "grinding for ISK", don't do it, purchase a PLEX. That's what they are there for.



Uh, actually a 95% tax rate means a .05% multiplier. In other words CONCORD KEEPS 95% and all you get is 5%.
Math error on you my friend.

5% of 2,500,000,000 is 125,000,000. But, yeah,I should have said "take 95% off of.... and get..."

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Slithe Plundarr
Article Fifteen.
#32 - 2012-09-25 15:31:27 UTC
We would have to do it like Factional Warfare except it would be Pirate Warfare and we would join a Pirate Group then go around blowing up other pirates. Sec status alone would not be a good enough control mechanism.
Elmanketticks
In Fidem
Outsmarted
#33 - 2012-09-25 15:32:06 UTC
And by killing ppl with positive sec status, the ganker must pay CONCORD for the kill? Big smile And what about people with 0.0 status?

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edit: disregard that, the state has fallen.
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#34 - 2012-09-25 15:33:09 UTC
Please do add this, me and my alts Alliance look forward to abuse Kill filthy pirates and gain a living out of it with Minimal effort hard work

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#35 - 2012-09-25 15:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
All that is necessary to prevent exploitation is to make the payout small enough that even with insurance there is no potential for monetary gain if you gank your own alts.

I do not feel a system like this should be in operation "all the time", however it does have potential in the creation of a workable bounty system.

However the bounty system finally shakes out, I would also like to see a "contract kill" system implimented that (while expensive) would allow the less reputable elements of EVE society to be able to pay to have high sec status individuals assassinated.

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#36 - 2012-09-25 15:45:19 UTC
Change the sec status multiplier to something from a log scale.

So a -10 gives you more than a -1, but not 10 times as much. maybe 3 times as much.

As for the rare ship thing, that's what happened with FW. It's controllable, as the prices aren't autoupdated. And controls can be put in place for large shifts in the price. If only a 'Hey, economics guy, look at this.'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#37 - 2012-09-25 15:48:25 UTC
Lets say it was possible to adjust the payout so the total gain was less than the value destroyed. Also the "value destroyed" is be defined in some way that could not be manipulated. (CCP may already have this to prevent insurance fraud from returning). Then would it be a good idea? I see 2 issues:

1) Its an ISK source into the game, and we have enough of those.
2) The fact that you got to do ISK making activities to get your PvP ships is what makes losses meaningful.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2012-09-25 15:49:05 UTC
Gonna chime in here again and say the last thing we need is another isk fountain.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-09-25 15:49:10 UTC
Thread moved from General Discussion to Features & Ideas - ISD Type40.

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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#40 - 2012-09-25 15:52:44 UTC
And the thread has been laid to rest.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden