Player Features and Ideas Discussion

my long posting has been completely destroyed .. *sigh*

I think all those who concentrate on just one part of the current system and think HMLs are OP deny too many facts which balance the game quite right (in every other aspect than maybe null sec fleets/blobs). There are no Slave-imps for shieldtanks, there are many issues with missiles in smaller engagements, and all missiles have less DPS than their turret cousins in optimal range of the turrets. In addition the so called high numbers (I agree Drakes are decent in DPS, and strong in tank, but they are not OP in the sum of both compared to the other 3 tier2 BC, period.) for Drake DPS can easily be countered by fitting just ONE module: kinetic resistance. If Drakes would be so OP, everyone would just fit kin res (or fly Gallente t2).

Drakes are not OP, they never have been, they will never be. They have strong points and drawbacks. The only thing which makes them shine: they are the only viable *allround combat* PvP ship in tech 1 for Caldari above frig-PvP. Matar have their Canes and Pests, and Phoons and Maels, and the Cyclone is also a scary PvP ship. Amarr have plenty too, and Gallente still have the Mega and Brutix for in your face and the Myrm and Domi for a bit more allround stuff. So, no: removing HML out of PvP is not a solution to anything except the null sec stuff.

Tengu is OP in comparison to other t3s in PvE, but not in PvP. Its an annoying ship to fight against, but other ships can be annoying too.

By no means any Caldari ship is as OP as the Machariel, neither in PvE or nor in PvP.

So my ideas for a change (or no change), pick one:

1) either leave everything as it is, maybe consider to change kin bonus with RoF for Caldari and give Rails and Lasers more damage type choice to put all weapon systems in line in the chance to shoot weak resists -> this will force more players to actually fit decent omni-tanks and make all systems similar in performance in PvE too.

2) or change the missiles in a way that not only TD/TC/TE mechanics apply, but also instant damage, wrecking hits and falloff (which is a main reason for winmatar being OP atm!). You cant balance by just give the weaknesses of a system and deny the strongpoints! Esp. not when the system is used by the mainstay of an entire race and still not OP in most parts of its use ..

3) or remove missiles out of this game, completely - put in Plasmacannons for Caldari, which are a turret system and use turret skills, work like turrets and dont suck completely - and reimburse all missile SP.

4) or give every ship with a weapon bonus a *class* based bonus instead of a *weapon type* based bonus: no more "5% for medium projectile *whatever*", but "5% for medium weapon system *whatever*", adjust PG/CPU/Hardpoints for the ships and reqs. for the weapons to bring them in line. This would remove variation, and I am pretty confident there wont be so many missile users afterwards ...

First of all removing links from tier 2 BC. They are not used anyway and just confuse new players. As one of previous posters said, I'd like to see one one tier for bonuses and another for combat.

Ferox: Shield Resists and Shield links bonuses (weaker than Command).
Brutix: Hybrid Damage and Information links binuses (weaker than Command).
Cyclone: Projectile Damage and Skirmish links bonuses (weaker than Command).
Prophecy: Armor Resists and Armor links bonuses (weaker than Command).

With weaker bonuses, lower EHP and no covert/nullifier those ships would not replace T2 or T3 booster ships but will allow new players to start with something while training leadership. Also they could be used in small roaming fleets and would be much more accessible and killable than cloaked bubble-nullified T3, encouraging more PvP overall. No more "we can't fight them or start roam because noone here have Loki" or "we can't afford bonuses to T1 cruiser-size fleet".

Drake: RoF bonus instead of kinetic, velocity for HAML would be welcomed too. If you ease fittings HAMLs it can survive without resist bonus. Remove link.
Myrmidon: More bandwith and useful bonus instead of +rep, like hybrid damage/rof or armor resists. Repair bonuses are just bad. Remove link.
Hurricane: We'll see how it will work with 220. How about moving one high to med? 2 utility slots are a bit too much and this will give Cane a proper Shield tank (can make it OP though). Remove link.
Harbinger: Replace cap bonus with armor or range and buff basic capacitor. make sure that it can be fitted as easy as other BC. Remove link.

This will make tier 2 BC more balanced with each other, all of them will be good.

Interesting ideas for the tier 1's, but I disagree with your changes to tier 2's.

Your Drake changes are ok.

Myrmidon rep bonus is broken because active armor tanking is nonexistent outside of PvE, I think something else needs to be done about that. Otherwise I think the Myrm's damage is fine, though 75m3 of bandwidth is a very awkward number.

Hurricane is fine, don't touch slots, it's different and I like that.

Lasers are based around having great stats built into the guns but excessive cap use. CCP has been homogenizing all weapon systems and I'd rather not see the Harb lose its cap use bonus. If it actually were to need changing (and I don't think it does, it's a fine ship already) I'd rather see it come in the form of a change to the base damage/tracking/range of lasers and maybe even an INCREASE in cap use. Make them have great strengths and great weaknesses.

After the nerf :
1 Zealot 117887
2 Tornado 36558
3 Naga 34228
4 Maelstrom 33398
5 Loki 31593
6 Oracle 30786

Yeah! let us prepare for the laser nerf!

protip: there is always a ship that's gonna be #1 on the statistics m8.

Now I'm puzzled.

As most people on this thread could agree on the fact the Drake and the Tengu (with Ejector bay) where in need of looking at and as some argued, not the HML's, now the Drake is considered about fine after the HML nerf?

woundn't it just be easer to nerf the range and damge of the drake and the Ejector bay, or adjust the drake bonuses to Ham instead of HML.

Now every other ship firering heavy missiles needs to be brought on par again.

Aside of the Drake and the Tengu no HML firering ship ever showed it self as a top killer in the last years.


Aside from that.

I'd like to see the Battlecruiser Ballance to bring the following, missile wise, since that is the main discussion at the moment.

Drake, should be ballanced more to one role, either long ranged, slower lower tank, or higher tank, short range brawler.

Secondly I'd like the BC class to gain a second Caldari Missile ship, that will fill the role the Drake isn't taking.

Minmatar and Anmar could do with a dedicated missile BC as well, Gallente might have need o something else.

I'd like to see Ballancing means that missile pilots get a little more choice in what they fly, aside of that 1 t1 battlecruiser of 12 T1 BC's.

Secondly I'd like to see the changes that are discused now to be implanted in a slower pace, not destroying certain T2 cruisers, Battlecruisers and to my opinion certain T3 configurations completly, before they are looked at.

wait untill the ship ballancing is done before bringing the TD plans in game, they are such a game changer I think no one here can predicts it's efects and you guys have a very hard time to predict it's effects.

I hope you can work with that.

And thums up for the time you take to hear us try to explain, whine and growl.

Seriously, reowrk it however else, gimp it's speed I don't care, something, but the model, you made the art to fit 8 launcher. it looks so bad in game. SO bad.

HAM Drakes like that were first flown in 2007.. well I flew then them, someone else probably got there first in 2006. This si why HAM Drake reliably beats most other BCs in a straight slugging match. I can't believe you didn't know this.

Nerf the tracking enacher to 20% fallof bounus.

Where is this magic no drake low sec? Damn sure isn't between Otou and Old Man Star, because were always Drakes around, solo ham, webby nanos etc etc.

Rokhs are also perfectly viable PvP battleships, maybe not small stuff, but they are. Great against Tengus and short range BS...oh and Drakes.

I don't know if this poster is a troll or not but I'll bite it anyway.

These stats are kills. Not ships died. There are 209852 ship kills that have drakes in them.

Meaning this ship is used a LOT. Infact 2 times more than nearest contender...and almost 4 times more than the cane.

Yes it is used a LOT. Even in low sec it is used a lot. It is used everywhere.

...and it is used for a good reason. It is that good. The stats of the ship itself are not that impressive. It is the weapon system.

It is even used in this forum thread where the discussion should be about heavy missiles in general. I expect a 300+ pages ranting when the time for BC rebalancing comes.