Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Six Launcher is a little much remember this thing lobs its HAM's to 30km. In a small gang fight where you are spread 15-25km between primaries it starts dealing that Dmg Type Selected DPS before the Thorax closes range. Not better I use the Thorax now and it is good - the new speed as is but different. With 20m3 Drone Space I think it would be just perfect.

please reread my last post, I just refuted that point in an edit ;D

That's a reasonable point. You just described exactly what made the HML drake good. However, HML's have better explosion radius and explosion velocity, so their missiles actually hit closer to their listed damage.

Let's say we're not in magical 1v1 land. If we're facing slow, heavy ships, the other attack cruisers will have no problem getting to their target, especially because they're all faster than my caracal. Say we're facing fast ships then. Well, I can fire at the target moving 2km + m/s, but I'm doing a grand total <100 dps. Not to mention, my range is reduced by the speed of the target, while everyone else's hits immediately.

edit - sorry for the edits, I know it's annoying. But also, the maximum range of HAMs greatly depends upon skills (projection, bombardment, caldari cruiser). A pilot with maxed skills may get 30km, but a pilot with maxed skills won't be flying a caracal. A fairly new player will get closer to 15km, further reducing his supposed advantage.

If there's effective tackle, why can't the other attack cruisers, who are all faster than me, get to their optimal?

Again, it's an attack cruiser... dealing out DPS should be its primary strength. If you want to project damage, perhaps HAMs aren't for you?

And I'll level with you - I'm fighting a little bit in scenario land. In actuality, there may be times when the caracal is at least decent. But the caracal quite literally has all lower stats than the thorax, except range. It's like comparing deimos with cerberus, imho.

Yeah, I was just stating a reason the 'cane was so used. It's fast, strong enough, and it brings a good amount of utility. The Stabber is similar to this, so I can't really support much more than it's getting. It might need a little touching up, but I'd rather see this one implemented and tested before they start playing around with adding turrets. It's fast, versatile, and brings utility. They have to be careful with changing it up without testing it first.

For the people who are saying the Thorax will melt the Caracal, you have to remember the thorax is only 10m/s faster than the caracal, and if I fit an 800mm rolled tungsten + triple trimarks (or better yet, a 1600mm plate and triple trimarks), your caracal is going to be faster than my thorax by a lot. The caracal can start applying its dps at 25km and hit my thorax for effective damage, while I have to OH and play cat and mouse games to catch you and start applying my dps. So yes, the caracal does less dps on paper, but on paper, every Gallente hull does the best dps in game, but we can clearly see that's not the case unless you have perfect conditions.

And for the for people who say well if I fit neutrons on the thorax, it gets 600dps. If you're fitting neutrons, you're doing it wrong. There has been no buff to PG on the thorax, so if you only want a DCU II for tank then that's what you'll get. The thorax is not a shield tanked hull, or rather that is what CCP intends from the logic of them removing over 300 shield HP on the thorax hull. Even if I only fit an 800mm rolled tungsten, I still have to fit some type of fitting mod to fit a full rack of ions. If I fit just an 800mm plate and a full rack of 200mm rails, I need an ACR and +3% implant. The tracking bonus is awesome, the extra mid slot to fit a cap booster to help against everyone fitting neuts is good, but the PG on Gallente hulls makes them either all gank or all tank.

Directed at Fozzie: When the hybrid weapons platform was given their small buff, CCP acknowledged that the buff was too small and was only a start. There needs to be nerf, specifically to medium hybrids, to the hybrid weapons PG fitting requirements. Or there needs to be a buff to Gallente hull base PG. My question to you: you're doing both for the amarr, why not do the same for the Gallente?

True
This attack cruiser concept doesn't work well with armor tank

Armor tank will slow down the ship while attack cruiser / attack ship is meant to be a fast and agile attacker
That's why I said that Thorax will be another Deimos (or Die-Most)

[Thorax, Winter]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Would work just fine, though 100 PG had to be added if it's supposed to work with Neutrons. LSE II gives enough buffer so you don't have to worry about lower base shield value.

Yes, I understand. But tbh armor attack cruiser conception seems flawed. Also Gallente players got used already to shield Domi and autocannon Myrm, the way CCP see Gallente is just don't work.