Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Agreed. I would have assumed the concept is similar in rails vs blasters; meaning, the shorter range weapons will typically do more damage.

Now, with that said, I agree that the damage difference between HMs and HAMs is negligible. I agree with the earlier statement that HAMs should be buffed, and HMs get nerfed, but I do not agree with a 20% nerf on one to compensate for the two. This is too much of a gank in the wrong direction.

You know, I do have to recant my earlier statement about taking longer to train guns than missiles. While yes, it takes less time to fit T2 heavies....by comparison, on a naked toon with no remap, here are the training times:

Perfect Med Artys - 151d, 6h
Perfect Med Rail/Beam - 162d, 22h
Perfect HM - 172d, 5 h

I was wrong But it would make sense that if the are going to nerf the damage, would it not make sense to bring the training times more in line with it's counterparts? And maybe make an adjustment to controlled bursts to do something for projectiles and drop, say missile bombardment to a lvl or 2?

I can post mine when I get home. :P

Yup. That would be similar enough to my fit.

I am guessing someone else doesn't use EFT..... or not enough. :P

Fozzie,
you mention in the first post you'd be boosting the fury damage while increasing its penalties (exp vel, exp rad). Where does this leave heavy missile fury damage on a target your hitting perfectly? Thinking shooting heavy furies at a target painted BS, 10% down, 5%? or is it the full 20% your talking about in the first post? Just curious 'cause you talked about a buff and a nerf and I would like an idea of what they add up to.

Also the short range missile systems as a concept they are ok....but a bit uninspired.

As they stand this is nice,
current missile effects 25s

But this is awesome,
MRLS in Wargame: European Escalation

Any chance of giving the short range missiles burst damage? Was thinking boost RoF, shrink capacity and up reload. Just seems a bit silly when I zoom in on a torpedo launcher especially and see the two other torps just sitting there. This is definitely something I'd be happy to take a damage nerf on :)

Curious as to what this fit is for? For solo PVP, most people use either ECM drones or Warrior II's....

@Echyy's ham drake fit



OK, few issues.

1) You would need a 6% CPU implant with all skills lvl 5 in order to build this fit.

2) The dps of this fit all skills 5 without implants is
592 - 675 overheated.

3) That fit has a EM hole, though it still has a 78k em EHP


ON top of all that, what a lot of people don't realize about the drake is while it has a massive EHP, it doesn't recover that very quickly.
So, it's a really big block of cold butter.
In other words, there's a lot of it, and it's kinda tough, but it'll go down either way.

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Ok, so this section is in hopes that people will understand my concern.

My concern is not the drake.
My concern is not heavy missiles.
While my concern does involve the tengu, it's not the tengu itself.

My concern is that nerfing heavy missiles will reduce the effectiveness of the tengu (as well it should) but in doing so will leave a massive cap in pve as far as missile boat efficiency is concerned.

Like I've stated before, I am well aware the tengu needs to be nerfed, but nerfing its pve effectiveness before buffng missile boat bs's wil leave me and other missile boat pilots with nothing but lack luster ships in pve.

Given the current rate of ship rebalancing I presume it will be at least a year before battleships are rebalanced.

Meaning I'll either need to spend half that time (at least) cross training to another race in order to get high efficiency pve capability, or I'll have to boat around in an under efficient ship just for the sake of using my 8+ mil sp in missiles.

So, this nerf coming before battleship rebalance is very damaging to us missile boaters...

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Now, as far as the nerfs directly, while I do feel they're a bit premature, I don't feel that they're too much after putting some thought into it.

Being that they can be fit on cruisers, they're extremely powerful on that class of ship.

On the drake, they're not that powerful, but combined with its massive EHP, it has a lot of capability.

Now, I also can't help feel that this has a lot more to do with the tengu than anything else.

I'm pretty sure that when drake rebalance comes around it will probably receive all of the lost dps back, and some of the range.
However, it will probably lose a good chunk of ehp. It will probably retain its resist bonuses, but will lose its high shield recharge rate. Thus the drake will become more of an active/buffer tank ship, which would make it more vulnerable in pvp via no longer being almost immune to cap warfare.

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Back to the tengu
So, again, we all know the tengu needs nerfed.
This missile nerf is just the stepping stone.
It's dps with a good pve fit will be reduced to between 500-550 depending on isk investment.
This is not bad, but low compared to many other effective pve capable ships.
However, this is higher effective dps than a cruie raven, cruise scorpion navy, or even cruise raven navy.
This is pretty sad when you consider it.

Now, if the tengu gets a direct ship nerf before battleships (as I fear it probably will) then it will no longer be viable in lvl 4 missions.
Either way missile boats are losing the only high efficiency lvl 4 mission runner they have.
Someone will probably argue in favor of the golem, however, it's not very effective by any means.

Others may argue for a torp raven or navy raven. If you've ever tried to fly one of these then you know this is just a bad idea with a lot of damage that isn't effective.



Point being, wht am I supposed to do for pve after this heavy missile nerf?
Obviously use my tengu as a billion isk paper weight, but other than that, i guess I have no chice but to either sit out for a while or spend a pretty long time cross training...

That's great that you are paying so many attention to feedback.

Can you consider allowing Guided Missile Precision and Rigors affecting Unguided missiles? It's just incosistent with TE/TC/TL/TD and turrets. It would be fine if you nerf a bit explosion radius on them and then allow Guided Missile Precision bonus to apply to make it roughly the same.

I asked for numbers before and ofcourse have not recieved answer.
My last post was that Guided missile precission should affect all missiles. CCP can nerf their values and change skill name to make things the same, it's just the inconsistance that I dislike. BTW skill that only affects LM, HM and Cruise falls dangerously close to Defender's, FOF's and Shield Resist Compenstation's skills territory.

How slow are you flying your dessies