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500m to declare war on Goonswarm? (AKA: why are small corps penalised by the wardec system?) First post
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Doomheim 8,040
Paul Oliver Doomheim Likes received: 8,040	#261 - 2012-09-11 21:42:57 UTC 1 Being able to wardec an individual vs entire corporations sounds a little grieferish. I don't want entire corporations hunting me like that. Hell for me atleast having that kind of mechanic in place would instantly kill ANY desire to socialize at all. `Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).`

Nicolo da'Vicenza

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 3,706

#262 - 2012-09-11 21:58:33 UTC

Paul Oliver wrote:

Being able to wardec an individual vs entire corporations sounds a little grieferish. I don't want entire corporations hunting me like that. Hell for me atleast having that kind of mechanic in place would instantly kill ANY desire to socialize at all.

You have to ask yourself, why would anyone wardec a 17-day old newbie when they could be wardeccing the 6 year old PVE alt zipping around highsec in their pimp ship unprotected? With NPC corps being permanently undeccable, the old PVE alts are safe and the newbies who want to try being part of a player corp but can't defend themselves soak up all the griefing.

Also, with newbie ships (frigates, cruisers) EHP being so low, if anyone wanted to grief them they could just suicide gank them in catalysts one jump from the rookie systems, amirite?

Paul Oliver

Doomheim

Likes received: 8,040

#263 - 2012-09-11 22:06:08 UTC

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Paul Oliver wrote:

You have to ask yourself, why would anyone wardec a 17-day old newbie when they could be wardeccing the 6 year old PVE alt zipping around highsec in their pimp ship unprotected?

Also, with newbie ships (frigates, cruisers) EHP being so low, if anyone wanted to grief them they could just suicide gank them in catalysts one jump from the rookie systems, amirite?

I see your point but at the same time I feel like a lot of people who play this game are more than willing to take the easy risk free kill, it seems that the pvp demographic is not without it's share of carebears either. And with that in mind I really don't like the idea of a mechanic that would make griefing newbies that much easier, even if it is intended to be used against people who sit in the npc corps forever with their billion isk mission running pimp Tengu.

Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).

Nicolo da'Vicenza

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 3,706

#264 - 2012-09-11 22:38:51 UTC

Paul Oliver wrote:

Wardec corps aren't big on risk, true. But what's so much riskier about jumping a AFK piloting jump freighter worth 10 bil at a stargate over a AFK piloting noobship? Same risk, but much greater profit with the former. So the established player is force to take actions to prevent himself from being such a juicy target, whether that's by bringing an escort, fighting back, carrying less on a trip, or downgrading his ship to not be so pimped out. In other words costs, or at least loss of potential profits.

This and other forms of non-consensual PVP keeps the old moneyed elite from investing all of their ISK into their ISK grinding activities and utterly flooding the player-driven economy with product that you, the newbie, have no way of keeping pace with. If I and my friends, having pimped multiboxed Mackinaw fleets with ganglinked Orcas giving out bonuses, we might lower the price of minerals with all of our output, but overall we'd make more money. But you in your mining frigate or retriever would be making less money then you would if we didn't do such a thing. Maybe you'd move up to the 'higher level' some day, but it would require more work for you to grind that isk then they did.

And I already agreed that there should be a 'grace' period for brand new players still doing the tutorial and such.

Gallente Federation 2,451
Lord Zim Gallente Federation Likes received: 2,451	#265 - 2012-09-11 22:42:43 UTC I run my hisec chars in 1 man corps, they haven't been griefed. Then again, I don't run around with 20b loads in my freighter. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. RIP Vile Rat

Lady Whipcrack

Doomheim

Likes received: 21

#266 - 2012-09-15 15:18:06 UTC

Paul Oliver wrote:

Provided you could only wardec an individual if they're over a certain age limit AND in an NPC corp, it could work pretty well and negate the issue of characters 'hiding' with impunity in NPC corps.

Paul Oliver

Doomheim

Likes received: 8,040

#267 - 2012-09-15 15:34:11 UTC

Lady Whipcrack wrote:

Paul Oliver wrote:

Provided you could only wardec an individual if they're over a certain age limit AND in an NPC corp, it could work pretty well and negate the issue of characters 'hiding' with impunity in NPC corps.

I would endorse this if said wardec was kept between individuals only and did not include either party's corpmates within the wardec, sort of a renewable for a substantial weekly isk rate kill right if you will. But I guess from a player corp's perspective that might take some of the fun out of it, although from an npc corp member's perspective it might add some survivability and a reason not to just stop playing.

Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).

Doomheim 32
Too-Boku Doomheim Likes received: 32	#268 - 2012-09-15 17:15:11 UTC 1 Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: You have to ask yourself, why would anyone wardec a 17-day old newbie 17 day old newbies get wardec'd by running their mouth.

Kelath Erebus

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2

#269 - 2012-09-25 02:41:59 UTC

The reason CCP did this change is in their blog post: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=42269

To quote:

"The increased cost reflects the easier access to multiple targets. There have been some worries having the cost scale in this way creates incentive to declare war on small entities. Griefing on small entities is not rampant now, and with the cost increasing from 2 million to 50 million, there is no reason to assume griefing on small entities will increase with these changes."

I think your main question is answered with their first question, the reason it costs more to attack larger corporations/alliances is that CCP feels that you're paying for more targets.

They don't seem to have an issue with people attacking the smaller corps, because according to CCP greifing on small entities is not rampant and they don't think the increase of 2 million to 50 million isk is going to magically change that.

Lady Whipcrack

Doomheim

Likes received: 21

#270 - 2012-09-25 17:42:14 UTC

Kelath Erebus wrote:

I think your main question is answered with their first question, the reason it costs more to attack larger corporations/alliances is that CCP feels that you're paying for more targets.

They don't seem to have an issue with people attacking the smaller corps, because according to CCP greifing on small entities is not rampant and they don't think the increase of 2 million to 50 million isk is going to magically change that.

The problems with these points have been discussed extensively within this thread.

DarthNefarius

Minmatar Heavy Industries

Likes received: 1,307

#271 - 2012-09-26 17:19:49 UTC | Edited by: DarthNefarius

<-----------Donns faction tinfoil hat

Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:

Why do you need to wardec Goons anyway? They live in nullsec, where you can shoot them no matter what, and not even lose sec status.

Many want to wardeck goons now because since CCP DEVs in thier infinite WISDOM Roll

gave these SPACERICH allainces a free pass into ganking frieghters in HI SEC without worry of being wardecked because it costs 500 million a week to strike back at them is my best guess.

Past 2 weeks Goons havebeen free of wardecks because of the high costs CCP:
INSTEAD OF INFERNO'S NEW WARDECK RULES SPAWNING MORE WAR YOU DESIGNS HAVE MADE THE OPPOSITE TRUE Attention

I wish CCP Diagoras was around so he could publish stats like if more or less war declarations have been made since Escalation/Inferno patchs but I don't think CCP want any real statistics to be published around the release of Dust that could potentially look bad in any way.That is also probably why the 'rumor threads' are now against the rules in the forums so in the absense of real statisics they can have ISD or CCP employees censor a post that may be too close to an uncomfortable truth & say since you don't have the real numbers because we don' t release those anymore it is merely a fear mongering rumor

If you want the playerbase to be heard vote out the spacerich NULL SEC ALLIANCE heavy CSM's
But I think the voter apathy in HI SEC is too great with the current situation.

/me takesoff tin foil hat

An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'

BoBoZoBo

MGroup9

Likes received: 559

#272 - 2012-09-26 17:55:04 UTC

Wardec system is ****.

Not many things in the game come close to being that bad. But the wardec system is. One of the problems in letting so many people decide these things. Especially when they have a clear intertest in having it messed up.

I dont even consider wardec a part of the game to use since it sucks so much. Did I mention how ****** it was...

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite


BoBoZoBo MGroup9 Likes received: 559	#273 - 2012-09-26 17:56:15 UTC Wardecs are such ** - that I decided to double post on the subject. ** systems deserve **** replies/ Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

BoBoZoBo

MGroup9

Likes received: 559

#274 - 2012-09-26 18:00:06 UTC

Fu@K IT - I'm doing a triple post

Not only are they **** - they are clearly biased.
Obviousiy biased system is obviously biased.

I would say that they didn't put much thought in it, but "they" would be limited to CCP, because whoever is influencing them clearly thought about how useless they wanted wardecs to be, because they are obviously useless.

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