These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2781 - 2012-09-24 17:23:37 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
All im gonna say is this:

Agreeing with an above poster when he states you should rebalance battlecruisers before you rebalance missiles.

If you rebalance HMLs BEFORE battlecruisers, the Drake will be capable of about 200 DPS..Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills..

ALL LVL5 SKILLS WITH 7 PERFECTLY SKILLED HML LAUNCHERS ----- 294 DPS

CCP - seriously? your going to do this?

Good Job at trying to make this look as bad as possible with the numbers you have given. Also it is 20% nerf not 25%. Next point HML are long range attack weapons. If you want to post how about putting hams on there and fight close range like the rest of the races have to or are you like the rest of the people and think that only HML can be fit to medium sized ships.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2782 - 2012-09-24 17:29:05 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

What if i told you there are Other missiles systems?


What if I told you the other missile systems suck?


Cry more about your wasted skill points. Let me show you my wasted titan skill points, or my wasted skill points when I was a nano pilot back in the day.


Your sitting here crying about SP you spent on ships that are still relevant and usable.
just because you don't use those ships/fits anymore doesn't mean you couldn't.

So, if you want to coach me on my missile SP, then perhaps you should sit down and look at the fact that no SP into weapon systems should ever be a waist of SP.
Why should I consider an entire group of weapon systems waisted SP?
Because you say so?


Quote:
Things change, get over it and move on, in EVE you'l learn that if you want to be nerf proof, you'll train for everything, and if you dont train for everything AND you're not an innovator (you're not) then you simply shut up and deal with it while the actual innovators work out the new fits that function in a given weapons systems.

Also your quoted post about how 'weapons should be' is dumb, hth.



And you're an innovator?

Look, you may not agree with my proposed weapons balancing design, but at least I'm providing options.

You are doing nothing but harping on people.
You're nagging me about missile skills being waisted SP, though a weapon system should never be waisted SP,
and you're knocking on my proposed weapons balancing without providing any suggestions of your own, OR any reasoning why my design idea wouldn't work and/or shouldn't be implemented.

By definition you are nothing more than a troll getting your jollies off by telling other's to HTFU and that their ideas are dumb.

Move along troll
Doddy
Excidium.
#2783 - 2012-09-24 17:30:31 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
deerin wrote:
I'll put this here again just so you guys can have an idea on how things are atm and how things are going to be:

http://imgur.com/xAlKi


The way I feel it should be(changes from the graph are underlined)

Beam lasers - best close range, worst mid range(nerf), moderate long range (buff)

Rails - worst short range(nerf), moderate mid range, best long range(good, but with some buff)

Arty - moderate short range(slight buff), best mid range(buff), worst long range(nerf, but not out of range)

heavy missiles - moderate short range(buff), moderate mid range(nerf), moderate long range(actually present/buff)

This means every weapon system has a range at which they are the king, but also a range at which they are the worst.

While missiles would never be the worst at any range, they'd never be the best at any range either.


Building each weapon system in this manner (including close range weapon systems) this would actually help to keep a check on combat so that no single weapon system would be the trump card.
This would also help to suggest a mixed fleet doctrine.

This puts all systems in check because if someone ever makes a pure fleet again, well then a mixed, or possibly pure fleet of another weapon type will be able to determine the range of combat, thus defeating the enemy by putting themselves at optimal, but not their target.

Now, it suggests to them mixed fleets because you'll be prepared for any type of fleet reguardless of what range they come in at, and you'll still be able to determine the range of battle when you attack someone else.


Dude, the whole point of fleet doctrines is for everyone to fight at the same range. Making specific weapons best at specific ranges just makes a mixed fleet even less likely.

If you want to kite you put every guy in the ship best at medium range. If you want to snipe you put everyone in the best long range set up. If you want to brawl you put every guy in the best ship at short range. If you are not sure what you want or if you will be able to dictate you put everyone in the set up with the best range variance.

The problem with medium weaponry at the moment is that the weapon system best for sniping (long range) and kiting (medium range) is also the one with the best range variance and its not half bad at brawling either (thanks to the resilience of the ships that use them). Missiles currently have best damage at medium and long range, so you would need to nerf them heavily, at least as heavily as the current nerf .
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2784 - 2012-09-24 17:32:20 UTC
MIrple wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
All im gonna say is this:

Agreeing with an above poster when he states you should rebalance battlecruisers before you rebalance missiles.

If you rebalance HMLs BEFORE battlecruisers, the Drake will be capable of about 200 DPS..Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills..

ALL LVL5 SKILLS WITH 7 PERFECTLY SKILLED HML LAUNCHERS ----- 294 DPS

CCP - seriously? your going to do this?

Good Job at trying to make this look as bad as possible with the numbers you have given. Also it is 20% nerf not 25%. Next point HML are long range attack weapons. If you want to post how about putting hams on there and fight close range like the rest of the races have to or are you like the rest of the people and think that only HML can be fit to medium sized ships.







No I am quite simply taking what CCP du*ba*s said and ripping it to shreds.

The argument is that the nerf is to bring HMLs in line with all other long range weapons.

That argument is flawed and utter BS because an Oracle can get 650 DPS easily at 75km

A Tornado can easily get 650 DPS at 75km

Yes I realise I'm using BS weapons but its valid because these ships are the same ship class as a Drake. The argument is for long range weapons so again I'm quite valid to argue the HML nerf will be a large death knoll for many players.

Numbers do not lie and even if it is a 20% nerf and not the 25% I thought in my previous post another 5% isnt going to make HMLs a valid weapon for ANYBODY. alot of players don't have lvl5 skills so those numbers are going to be even worse.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2785 - 2012-09-24 17:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: MIrple
TriadSte wrote:
MIrple wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
All im gonna say is this:

Agreeing with an above poster when he states you should rebalance battlecruisers before you rebalance missiles.

If you rebalance HMLs BEFORE battlecruisers, the Drake will be capable of about 200 DPS..Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills..

ALL LVL5 SKILLS WITH 7 PERFECTLY SKILLED HML LAUNCHERS ----- 294 DPS

CCP - seriously? your going to do this?

Good Job at trying to make this look as bad as possible with the numbers you have given. Also it is 20% nerf not 25%. Next point HML are long range attack weapons. If you want to post how about putting hams on there and fight close range like the rest of the races have to or are you like the rest of the people and think that only HML can be fit to medium sized ships.







No I am quite simply taking what CCP du*ba*s said and ripping it to shreds.

The argument is that the nerf is to bring HMLs in line with all other long range weapons.

That argument is flawed and utter BS because an Oracle can get 650 DPS easily at 75km

A Tornado can easily get 650 DPS at 75km

Yes I realise I'm using BS weapons but its valid because these ships are the same ship class as a Drake. The argument is for long range weapons so again I'm quite valid to argue the HML nerf will be a large death knoll for many players.

Numbers do not lie and even if it is a 20% nerf and not the 25% I thought in my previous post another 5% isnt going to make HMLs a valid weapon for ANYBODY. alot of players don't have lvl5 skills so those numbers are going to be even worse.






And the Naga can get 750 at 86k so should we nerf it cause it gets 100 more dps at 10k longer?

You know what I am done with this arguement the people that cant adapt will cry about how this is so unfair. The people that can think for themselves will make the new system work for us. It doesnt matter how many ways we can show you this will not be the end of the Drake or the HM system you have your blinders on head down and will not listen to anyone on this. So I would be better talking to a rock.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2786 - 2012-09-24 17:45:52 UTC
MIrple wrote:
And the Naga can get 750 at 86k so should we nerf it cause it gets 100 more dps at 10k longer?


Or should we say 400 dps at 240km? 400 dps is around where Drake's dps is now, right?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2787 - 2012-09-24 17:46:15 UTC
If you're going to have TE and TC affect missiles ala turrets then why not go Full Monty and have short range ammo and long range ammo like the turrets as well?
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2788 - 2012-09-24 17:49:04 UTC
MIrple wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
MIrple wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
All im gonna say is this:

Agreeing with an above poster when he states you should rebalance battlecruisers before you rebalance missiles.

If you rebalance HMLs BEFORE battlecruisers, the Drake will be capable of about 200 DPS..Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills..

ALL LVL5 SKILLS WITH 7 PERFECTLY SKILLED HML LAUNCHERS ----- 294 DPS

CCP - seriously? your going to do this?

Good Job at trying to make this look as bad as possible with the numbers you have given. Also it is 20% nerf not 25%. Next point HML are long range attack weapons. If you want to post how about putting hams on there and fight close range like the rest of the races have to or are you like the rest of the people and think that only HML can be fit to medium sized ships.







No I am quite simply taking what CCP du*ba*s said and ripping it to shreds.

The argument is that the nerf is to bring HMLs in line with all other long range weapons.

That argument is flawed and utter BS because an Oracle can get 650 DPS easily at 75km

A Tornado can easily get 650 DPS at 75km

Yes I realise I'm using BS weapons but its valid because these ships are the same ship class as a Drake. The argument is for long range weapons so again I'm quite valid to argue the HML nerf will be a large death knoll for many players.

Numbers do not lie and even if it is a 20% nerf and not the 25% I thought in my previous post another 5% isnt going to make HMLs a valid weapon for ANYBODY. alot of players don't have lvl5 skills so those numbers are going to be even worse.






And the Naga can get 750 at 86k so should we nerf it cause it gets 100 more dps at 10k longer?


Dont tempt fate...CCP might be reading this and think its a good idea Cool

CCPs entire idea here is flawed, flawed isn't even the word its just complete and epic fail.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2789 - 2012-09-24 17:49:16 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
If you're going to have TE and TC affect missiles ala turrets then why not go Full Monty and have short range ammo and long range ammo like the turrets as well?


I think this will happen when they change the precision and fury missiles. If you are asking for T1 I would be ok with that also.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2790 - 2012-09-24 17:50:22 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
All im gonna say is this:

Agreeing with an above poster when he states you should rebalance battlecruisers before you rebalance missiles.

If you rebalance HMLs BEFORE battlecruisers, the Drake will be capable of about 200 DPS..Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills..

ALL LVL5 SKILLS WITH 7 PERFECTLY SKILLED HML LAUNCHERS ----- 294 DPS

CCP - seriously? your going to do this?

For comparsion lets take say a..........Tornado

800mm Repeating artillery
2 x T2 Gyro
2X T2 Tracking Enhancer

All lvl5 skills - barrage ammo [same range as HMLs and there we have 622 DPS

How is that balanced?

An Oracle can easily get into the 650 DPS range and more...

How is this balanced?

CCP your making the biggest F**K up in the history of this game, do NOT allow it to happen.



While I am agreeing with you on the nerfed drake being laughably bad, you're making a terrible comparison.

You're comparing the drake's dps against 2 battlecruisers that are designed to fit large guns and have massive dps, though they're glass cannons.


However, the drake is so different from other tier 2 battlecruisers that I don't feel it should be compared to them in any manner.

Honestly though, it is a bit OP when compared to bcs as a whole, but this can be fixed with a simple EHP nerf.
There's no need for the heavy missile nerf, unless they're just trying to make them less powerful on cruisers and will compensate when the rebalance the drake.

But, like I said, heavy missiles shouldn't have been balanced until battlecruiser rebalance
Doddy
Excidium.
#2791 - 2012-09-24 17:52:05 UTC
MIrple wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
All im gonna say is this:

Agreeing with an above poster when he states you should rebalance battlecruisers before you rebalance missiles.

If you rebalance HMLs BEFORE battlecruisers, the Drake will be capable of about 200 DPS..Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills..

ALL LVL5 SKILLS WITH 7 PERFECTLY SKILLED HML LAUNCHERS ----- 294 DPS

CCP - seriously? your going to do this?

Good Job at trying to make this look as bad as possible with the numbers you have given. Also it is 20% nerf not 25%. Next point HML are long range attack weapons. If you want to post how about putting hams on there and fight close range like the rest of the races have to or are you like the rest of the people and think that only HML can be fit to medium sized ships.







yeah people don't use kinetic misisle on drakes wut?

Anyway that dps figure is around what a single bonus bc gets with any other long range weapon system using ammo with comparable range.

Ferox - 210 dps for greater optimal, can add a luancher for a little more dps.

Brutix - 307dps, needs to use spike to get the range

Cyclone - 196 dps, will need to add tracking mods to match the range, can add 3 launchers so not as bad is it looks.

Harbinger - 323 dps, needs tracking mods to match range. Has secondary weapon bonus so unlike the other single damage bonus bcs has no tanking bonus. Its really a gank bc like the cane.

Myrmiddon is hard to fit in because its a droneboat.

That leaves hurricane, which everyone wants to compare with drake. Thing is cane is a dual damage bonus ship and doesn't get a tanking bonus so its not really a good comparison in the first place.

Hurricane - 294 dps (coincidental?) - need tracking mods to match range, can add launchers but doesn't have the grid really.

So the double damage bonused gank bc needs tracking or fitting mods just to match the damage of the tank bc at comparable range AFTER the nerf.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#2792 - 2012-09-24 17:59:29 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:
The AML Caracal, with all level 5 skills, will do something under 200 dps heated, and about 160 dps normally.

It'll do around 300 dps (before heat) post patch, out to 50+ km with essentially perfect damage application against destroyers and up when using fury, and the option to switch down to faction ammo to hit frigates for full damage right in their resist hole. You don't *need* neuts for frigate defence when you can smack them down with your primary weapon system.
Lili Lu
#2793 - 2012-09-24 18:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
TriadSte wrote:
Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills...

For comparsion lets take say a..........Tornado

800mm Repeating artillery
2 x T2 Gyro
2X T2 Tracking Enhancer

All lvl5 skills - barrage ammo [same range as HMLs and there we have 622 DPS

How is that balanced? . . .

CCP your making the biggest F**K up in the history of this game, do NOT allow it to happen.

Lol No it's u. You are the biggest F**K up poster in the history of the game. Noone uses scourge fury? You've got no evidence for that statement.

Oh, and yeah I know the Harby does more damage with explo . .grlgrgl . . oh well I guess IT'LL HAVE TO USE ITS BONUSED DAMAGE TYPE for any comparison. And you obviously are ignoring the apparent trend in rebalancing where CCP is (unwisely imo) getting rid of the kinetic bonuses on Caldari missile boats and replacing them with a damage or rof bonus. So just wait a year til the BC rebalancing and don't worry about your distaste for kinetic as a damage type.

And then you compare this to a Tornado with its LARGE SHORT RANGE HIGH DAMAGE weapon system. And you compound your erroneous presentation with figures by totally ignoring the 7KM OPTIMAL and include falloff in your comparison of dps at range! You clearly have no understanding of and experience with those turrets and I dare say with turrets in general. ******* amazingWhat?

And you repeat this bullshit comparison in your followup post simply tossing aside your dawning realization that there is something wrong with comparing these two ships. Ugh

Stop posting and think more.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2794 - 2012-09-24 18:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN
Oh, and as far as nerfing kinetic damage in order to buff RoF.

I HATE THAT!!!!

Unless they buff missile velocity ( A LOT) then we'll be waisting a whole lot more volleys.

Edit...

I like that they're giving equal damage across the board, just not with rof.

Again, unless they're planning to greatly increase velocity in exchange for flight time.
Doddy
Excidium.
#2795 - 2012-09-24 18:05:39 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
MIrple wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
All im gonna say is this:

Agreeing with an above poster when he states you should rebalance battlecruisers before you rebalance missiles.

If you rebalance HMLs BEFORE battlecruisers, the Drake will be capable of about 200 DPS..Lets open EFT

490 DPS Drake [all lvl5 skills no implants]

4xT2 BCU
7xT2 HML launcher w/Scourge Fury

If we take off the proposed 25% DPS we go down to 367.5 DPS; Bear in mind this is with Scourge Fury, it's BONUSED for this damage type missile. Yeah nobody uses kinetic missiles really, I would guess that EM are used most? So lets bang some T2 Mjol Fury and see the DPS..

As it is now it would pump 392 DPS minus the proposed 25% DPS nerf and that gives us a staggering 294 DPS will all lvl5 skills..

ALL LVL5 SKILLS WITH 7 PERFECTLY SKILLED HML LAUNCHERS ----- 294 DPS

CCP - seriously? your going to do this?

Good Job at trying to make this look as bad as possible with the numbers you have given. Also it is 20% nerf not 25%. Next point HML are long range attack weapons. If you want to post how about putting hams on there and fight close range like the rest of the races have to or are you like the rest of the people and think that only HML can be fit to medium sized ships.







No I am quite simply taking what CCP du*ba*s said and ripping it to shreds.

The argument is that the nerf is to bring HMLs in line with all other long range weapons.

That argument is flawed and utter BS because an Oracle can get 650 DPS easily at 75km

A Tornado can easily get 650 DPS at 75km

Yes I realise I'm using BS weapons but its valid because these ships are the same ship class as a Drake. The argument is for long range weapons so again I'm quite valid to argue the HML nerf will be a large death knoll for many players.

Numbers do not lie and even if it is a 20% nerf and not the 25% I thought in my previous post another 5% isnt going to make HMLs a valid weapon for ANYBODY. alot of players don't have lvl5 skills so those numbers are going to be even worse.






Your argument is valid when tornados and oracle have the same tank as drakes...... And to get even close to heavy missiles damage at range med turret users MUST have t2 guns trained so the sp argument is against you as well. You are not ripping anything to shreds you are just looking silly. Not even those most against the change think comparing hml damage to tier 3 damage is a good idea.
Sigras
Conglomo
#2796 - 2012-09-24 18:07:11 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
5 T2 hams PG 630, thats the entire pg of a caracal.

sure skills can lower that.

then again you need to it propulsion mods to dictate range T2 10mn MWD 165 pg

Large shield extender II 165 PG


so unbonesed fit having a pg gap of 330 PG, with 1 Large extender and a MDW.


Drone bay is the same as before the reballance

All cruisers got extra hp and speed/agillaty.

use TC/TE canceled out with TD.

So Ham caracal still fitting horror, HML Drake hardly any change as to what it was. valuable option Rapid light missile launcher, good nice frigate killer with little use outside FW

with the new stats: +100 PG and +80 CPU my math says theyll have an end total of 787.5 PG and 537.5 CPU

Each launcher takes 113.4 PG and 37.5 CPU for a total of 567 PG and 187.5 CPU leaving you with 220.5 PG and 350 CPU . . . I dont see the problem . . .
Doddy
Excidium.
#2797 - 2012-09-24 18:08:36 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
Oh, and as far as nerfing kinetic damage in order to buff RoF.

I HATE THAT!!!!

Unless they buff missile velocity ( A LOT) then we'll be waisting a whole lot more volleys.


They are buffing missile velocity but the wasted volleys thing is true. I personally think the nerf should be to rof rather than damage in the first place as missiles should clearly have high alpha. This has the added bonus off reducing lost volleys.
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#2798 - 2012-09-24 18:26:06 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Doddy wrote:

All long range weapons and sometime close range weapons are generally useless against a tackler who is on position and up to speed, this is how the game works. The fact the missile user will be able to add a little (ok very little vs intys) dps to help is drones is in fact an advantage.

It's insanely powerful infact. Even now, HML do some damage to frigates, and even to interceptors. Ever tryed to tackle a tengu ? It took him almost as many time to kill me than to kill a BC, but it finaly had killed me if I hadn't warped off. Now, HML will be even more deadly to frigates.

Infact, this so called nerf will make HML boat almost immune to frigates, and any pilote who fled a long range turret ship know what this mean. This is godly. And still, HML will remain the best weapon system at range.

Range is cut indeed, but TC/TE will expand it to something even bigger than before !

And no, TD won't be an IWIN module. Remember, with TC/TE, and I bet a lot of missiles users will use it, or at least the smart ones, your range will be equivalent or higher than before, and your damage application will be hell of a lot better. TD will just put the missiles to their base stats.

BTW, sacrificing a mid slot for EWAR SHOULD give you an advantage. It's the only strength of armor tanking ! Why does everyone want to nerf EWAR to oblivion ?


Are you trying to convince us or are you trying to convince CCP?

CCP is NOT buffing missiles. They are not making them "insanely powerful." They are, by their own statements, nerfing them.
Sigras
Conglomo
#2799 - 2012-09-24 18:27:03 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

People here either don't know a crap about what they are talking about or are completely dishonnest.

Some things to know :
- HML will only be hit by a SLIGHT nerf for their intended purpose ;
- HML are LONG RANGE weapons, they should be balanced around LONG RANGE weapons ;
- ALL other missiles will get a BUFF due to TE/TC and T2 missiles buff.
- Caracal will be BETTER.


slight nerf?
This nerf negates have trained any missile boat that can fit heavy missiles with damage bonus past lvl 1.
Everyone of them has a 25% bonus to damage at lvl 5.
We're losing 4 lvls of dps from every ship we've trained for.
slight nerf...hmm

What they're doing to the hurricane is a slight nerf.

What they're doing to heavy missiles is neutering them.

And lets face it, there's no such thing as a slightly neutered animal.

ok, check out the numbers.

The a drake with HML 2s and 3 BCS and no other mods does 398 DPS using caldari navy scourge at 80 km or so
The hurricane with 720 arty and 3 gyrostabs and no other mods does 262 DPS using tremor at 54 + 22 km
The harbinger with Heavy beam 2s, 3 heat sinks and no other mods does 305 DPS using Aurora at 54 + 10 km
The brutix with 250 mm Rails, 3 mag stabs and no other mods does 279 DPS using spike at 65 + 15

The drake out ranges everything except for the brutix basically, and it out damages the next best weapon by 30%

The best thing about this comparison is that they all get a 5% damage bonus except for the cane because most matari ships get two damage bonuses.

Stop comparing HMLs to autocannons, they are long range weapons.

Oh and the stats about the drake after the change will be around 318 DPS using caldari navy scourge at 60 km or so
Doddy
Excidium.
#2800 - 2012-09-24 18:34:10 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Doddy wrote:

All long range weapons and sometime close range weapons are generally useless against a tackler who is on position and up to speed, this is how the game works. The fact the missile user will be able to add a little (ok very little vs intys) dps to help is drones is in fact an advantage.

It's insanely powerful infact. Even now, HML do some damage to frigates, and even to interceptors. Ever tryed to tackle a tengu ? It took him almost as many time to kill me than to kill a BC, but it finaly had killed me if I hadn't warped off. Now, HML will be even more deadly to frigates.

Infact, this so called nerf will make HML boat almost immune to frigates, and any pilote who fled a long range turret ship know what this mean. This is godly. And still, HML will remain the best weapon system at range.

Range is cut indeed, but TC/TE will expand it to something even bigger than before !

And no, TD won't be an IWIN module. Remember, with TC/TE, and I bet a lot of missiles users will use it, or at least the smart ones, your range will be equivalent or higher than before, and your damage application will be hell of a lot better. TD will just put the missiles to their base stats.

BTW, sacrificing a mid slot for EWAR SHOULD give you an advantage. It's the only strength of armor tanking ! Why does everyone want to nerf EWAR to oblivion ?


Are you trying to convince us or are you trying to convince CCP?

CCP is NOT buffing missiles. They are not making them "insanely powerful." They are, by their own statements, nerfing them.


Except in the specific situation referred to (vs a frigate tackling) where the newly buffed precision missiles coupled with the ability to add tracking enhancement and the increase missile velocity will in fact be better than the situation now. So you are wrong, again.