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Is 180b isk per week from factional warfare normal? Is it balanced?
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Halia Janu
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-09-24 13:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Halia Janu
Billions, if not trillions of isk gets removed from the overall economy every time a FW faction gets T5, long term this creates deflation, it is not a difficult concept. The ISK people are making merely comes from other players, not bounty ticks.

And frankly, the average income of a random afk char is 80mil an hour at best (and that assumes that no-one attacks you in lowsec, fairly rare). If someone really wants to run over 100 accounts (approximately how many would have been required for this payout) then good luck to them. I don't have the patience (or the PC) to run that many accounts at once.

However, I think people should possibly report this ECM Jesus (I believe it was his payment) for botting so CCP can investigate, I don't know about the rest of you, but I find something seems very unlikely about really running over 100 accounts by hand...
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-09-24 15:11:41 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Where it once would have been a sink of 80M w/o Teir 5


Say I have 100 LP and 10,000 ISK. At T1, a widget costs 100LP and 10,000ISK. At T5, that widget costs 25LP and 2,500 ISK.

At T1, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 1 Widget.
At T5, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 4 Widgets.

Same amount of ISK sunk, greater amount of stuff produced => Greater deflationary pressure.


Unless the demand was elastic you are not going to be selling 4X widgets in the same amount of time. What you are seeing here is a 75% degradation of the ISK sink maybe a little less if demand goes up due to it selling for a cheaper price.

well. problem is: level 5 needs to be reached and maintained by people. It costs people some amount of LPs. So you won't have T5 for long time.

Result: when you see T5 you almost 'have to' spend all available LPs to buy something. Elsewere you can find yourself needed to buy stuff at T1-T4 later.

So i guess there is no degradation of ISK sink here.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Doddy
Excidium.
#83 - 2012-09-24 15:39:14 UTC
Sm4kahm Shalloola wrote:
Andski wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
According to the anti-high sec zealots, no number is ridiculous, as long as it is not high sec.
So yeah, running around with a 3 day alt in a speed tanked Incurses, with zero weapons, orbiting low sec plexes for a payout, yeah, billions and billions of ISK / week is entirely reasonable. But for a high sec player to make 1 hundredth of that, oh no, that is unbalancing the game.

You have not figured out yet the agenda of most of the CSM and some element of CCP employees.


lol shut up

this whole FW thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting till the next expansion to fix it, but that doesn't mean that your risk-free 120m/hour vanguard farming should come back



A touch of pot and kettle.

this whole Moon Goo thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting TWO expansions to attempt to fix it, BUT in the mean time the FW isk fountain will supplement my other alt characters/PLEX accounts before they do...

fix't for you.

lol you shut up.


This would work if it wasn't for the fact goonswarm said moon mins are ridiculous and should be nerfed from pretty much day 1......
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#84 - 2012-09-24 16:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Halia Janu wrote:
Billions, if not trillions of isk gets removed from the overall economy every time a FW faction gets T5, long term this creates deflation, it is not a difficult concept.


75% of the ISK sink though is reduced at tier 5. I wish we could see the real numbers but with CCP Diagoras gone any stats you make up are derived purely out of your arse. I do think in the short term we may be seeing large amoubts ISK being deleted but since the implant market is not that elastic over the long term LESS ISK will be taken out due to unchanged demand of most faction LP store items & the 75% ISK reduction of the sink at Tier 5

I think I can safely predict from these ~6months of ISK sink reductions we'll be seeing 3+ years worth of implants overstocked in the market which cost three quaters cheaper to 'make' then in any other LP store ( thus the ISK sink will be reduced from its average 6 trillion amonth reported by CCP Diagoras last February https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/174224813622181888
http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html).
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#85 - 2012-09-24 17:30:42 UTC
We're just gonna need to pod more people.

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#86 - 2012-09-24 17:38:17 UTC


This thread's discussion just gave me a headache...

I hope you're all happy.

Shocked

Where I am.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#87 - 2012-09-24 17:41:38 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
with CCP Diagoras gone


You keep writing that but where did you get that information, or is it based on pure speculation?

https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras

Last post 2 weeks ago.
Donnerjack Wolfson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-09-24 18:07:31 UTC
It's a bit extreme, yes.

HOWEVER.

Some people have said "Why's this okay and hisec income isn't." The difference is that FW is actually an isk SINK. Not an isk faucet like say 120m/hr norisk vanguards or any other non-mining (and maybe explo) activity in highsec. The only time you earn ISK in FW is killing people (a net loss) and missions (which are no more than hisec missions and much riskier)
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#89 - 2012-09-24 18:09:23 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.


FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.


So? FW removes ISK from the economy. The Tier system doesn't alter the proportion of ISK to LP needed to extract LP, so all it does is change the amount of stuff that gets extracted for a given amount of ISK sunk. As it happens, because higher tiers increase the amount of *stuff* in the game by a larger amount for a given amount of ISK sunk, they're an even greater deflationary force than lower tiers.

Remember, Inflation is a relative increase in the money supply, so when more stuff enters the economy without bringing new ISK into the economy (or in FWs case, while removing ISK), a deflationary pressure is exterted.


^^ THIS

Yes, working as intended. Lets move on.

Oh sorry, was that my CCP voice....
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#90 - 2012-09-24 20:21:15 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
with CCP Diagoras gone


You keep writing that but where did you get that information, or is it based on pure speculation?

https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras

Last post 2 weeks ago.


And the previous post was 26 June. Thats an entire summer &counting so far that CCP has been tighter fisted with stats then Romney with his past 10 years of tax returns! 
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Pipa Porto
#91 - 2012-09-24 20:33:58 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Halia Janu wrote:
Billions, if not trillions of isk gets removed from the overall economy every time a FW faction gets T5, long term this creates deflation, it is not a difficult concept.


75% of the ISK sink though is reduced at tier 5. I wish we could see the real numbers but with CCP Diagoras gone any stats you make up are derived purely out of your arse. I do think in the short term we may be seeing large amoubts ISK being deleted but since the implant market is not that elastic over the long term LESS ISK will be taken out due to unchanged demand of most faction LP store items & the 75% ISK reduction of the sink at Tier 5


Since you seem to have decided that reading's boring, I'll try again,

The only possible way that's true is if a significant amount of LP is left unredeemed. The ISK is sunk as soon as you accept the LP store offer. The status of the market for items is entirely irrelevant to any discussion of Faucets.

The Tier system doesn't alter the proportion of ISK to LP needed to extract LP, so all it does is change the amount of stuff that gets extracted for a given amount of ISK sunk. As it happens, because higher tiers increase the amount of *stuff* in the game by a larger amount for a given amount of ISK sunk, they're an even greater deflationary force than lower tiers.

Are you claiming that people leave a significant amount of LP unredeemed every time they hit T5? Because that is the only way the ISK sink shrinks at higher Tiers.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#92 - 2012-09-24 20:34:29 UTC
Speaker for TheDead wrote:



Your logic is flawed. Both give LP, but one is a sink, and one is a faucet? Shocked




It's not - additional to concord LP, Incursions spawn massive amounts of isk out of nothing (=isk faucet), whereas even at Tier V, FW still removes isk from the economy.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Borisk Zeltsh
Alcohlics Anonymous
#93 - 2012-09-24 20:37:25 UTC
I run fw plexs on one alt you can make between 6 to 10b week if you grind non stop the guy with that wallet link is eaither full crap or is running 18 acounts

fw plexing is isk sink it doesnt put isk into game but u use isk with lp to get items from lp store
fw missions gives isk but you put easly double that isk payout back into lp store

fw isk income is nothing compard to o.o moon goo income but with fw at least the grunts get the isk and not some egotastic o.o alliance leader

yes fw does need do be ballanced but not killed afta all the guys who fight for theyer faction deserve to make isk
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-09-24 21:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
with CCP Diagoras gone


You keep writing that but where did you get that information, or is it based on pure speculation?

https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras

Last post 2 weeks ago.


And the previous post was 26 June. Thats an entire summer &counting so far that CCP has been tighter fisted with stats then Romney with his past 10 years of tax returns!
CCP has been stricter and stricter with their statistical reporting and data dumps since the Tyrannis debacle (*) 2.25 years ago. They really ratcheted down on cool data a year ago after the negative publicity and financial troubles associated with their Incarna expansion, loan repayment problem and subsequent layoffs.

Pure speculation, but I'd wager that CCP doesn't want *any* data coming out about their company or their IPs prior to their launch of DUST. *Nothing* can get in the way of their Free-to-Play and Gold-selling gravy train!


(*) - where CCP economists and game designers overlooked the fact that players would reprocess POS modules to their [large] advantage. Roll

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Pipa Porto
#95 - 2012-09-24 21:20:23 UTC
Borisk Zeltsh wrote:
I run fw plexs on one alt you can make between 6 to 10b week if you grind non stop the guy with that wallet link is eaither full crap or is running 18 acounts

fw plexing is isk sink it doesnt put isk into game but u use isk with lp to get items from lp store
fw missions gives isk but you put easly double that isk payout back into lp store

fw isk income is nothing compard to o.o moon goo income but with fw at least the grunts get the isk and not some egotastic o.o alliance leader


6b a week is a Tech Moon.


Wait... no it isn't, it's FOUR Tech moons.

1 Three day alt = 4 Tech moons isn't "nothing compard to o.o moon goo income"

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2012-09-24 21:28:20 UTC
Borisk Zeltsh wrote:
I run fw plexs on one alt you can make between 6 to 10b week if you grind non stop the guy with that wallet link is eaither full crap or is running 18 acounts


I make a similar amount with 12 accounts, the key is moving goods after cashing out in a tradehub other than Rens/Jita.

In the past 60 days, I've cleared well over 350b, with a net loss of about 141m isk (500k slashers) due to either not paying attention at all, unfortunate spawn locations, or getting ganked. This is obviously not broken in the slightest, and should never be fixed. Roll
Selinate
#97 - 2012-09-24 21:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
*SNIP*

****, I don't know why I bother when I'm home sick with a cold.

Was reading the wrong page.
Borisk Zeltsh
Alcohlics Anonymous
#98 - 2012-09-24 22:00:14 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Borisk Zeltsh wrote:
I run fw plexs on one alt you can make between 6 to 10b week if you grind non stop the guy with that wallet link is eaither full crap or is running 18 acounts

fw plexing is isk sink it doesnt put isk into game but u use isk with lp to get items from lp store
fw missions gives isk but you put easly double that isk payout back into lp store

fw isk income is nothing compard to o.o moon goo income but with fw at least the grunts get the isk and not some egotastic o.o alliance leader


6b a week is a Tech Moon.


Wait... no it isn't, it's FOUR Tech moons.

1 Three day alt = 4 Tech moons isn't "nothing compard to o.o moon goo income"




What was the moon goo income before?
Pipa Porto
#99 - 2012-09-24 22:07:19 UTC
Borisk Zeltsh wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Borisk Zeltsh wrote:
I run fw plexs on one alt you can make between 6 to 10b week if you grind non stop the guy with that wallet link is eaither full crap or is running 18 acounts

fw plexing is isk sink it doesnt put isk into game but u use isk with lp to get items from lp store
fw missions gives isk but you put easly double that isk payout back into lp store

fw isk income is nothing compard to o.o moon goo income but with fw at least the grunts get the isk and not some egotastic o.o alliance leader


6b a week is a Tech Moon.


Wait... no it isn't, it's FOUR Tech moons.

1 Three day alt = 4 Tech moons isn't "nothing compard to o.o moon goo income"




What was the moon goo income before?


The highest Tech got during the height of OTEC was about ~12b a month. Which would make each 3 day alt worth only Two Tech moons.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Borisk Zeltsh
Alcohlics Anonymous
#100 - 2012-09-24 22:14:52 UTC
Wts 3 day old fw farming alt will trade for two tech moons Lol

im not saying it doesnt need balancing it clearly does what i said was dont kill it so guys fighting for militia cant make isk from it