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The future of Community and CCL

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Pipa Porto
#601 - 2012-09-18 19:20:05 UTC
ISD Eshtir wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
ISD Eshtir wrote:
As i promised you an ISD Seminar with and about the CCL ISD team. We now have a date and time for it.

Linky!

October 13th 2200 Eve Time

Looking forward to see you there!


I was under the impression that ISD Seminars were for ISDs to improve their skills and understanding. That's why it sounded good when it was announced 2 Months ago*.

TBH, I don't see what value in an outward facing Speech/Town Hall/Symposium/however you have the thing structured has for the goal of improved moderation from the ISD team**.

*I know it was Summer and all that, but seriously?

**Really, the best thing I can think of for that is the same stern instruction many first time posters recieve in other forums: Lurk More.


You do not have to attend if you do not want to. But i know there are some people out there that would love to see this happen, and that is why we do it.


Where did I say that it was a bad idea in general or that you shouldn't do it? The problem that got this whole thing started was not one of familiarity. We were not unhappy with the quality of the moderation that came out of the ISD team because we hadn't gotten to know them. We were unhappy with the quality of the moderation that came out of the ISD team because it was terrible.

To phrase it differently, it was not (and is not) a PR problem. It is a training (and to a lesser extent experience) problem.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#602 - 2012-09-19 21:48:21 UTC
So I did promise earlier in the tread to try to call out what I consider to be good moderation. I realized I haven't really been doing that. Squeaky wheels and kicks and all that.

So, without further ado, I want to call out ISD Dorrim Barstorlode. He seems to get what the third letter in your title means: CCL (Community Communications Liaison). Liaison means that the first job is to interact positively with the target of your Liaising (what an odd word), and that's something ISD DB (because there are just too many "r"s in his name to spell) does very well, frequently posting in threads as a positive contributor rather than simply reporting on what moderation action he's performed. In addition to being an effective Liaison, his judicious use of of his moderation powers have given him this spot on CCL Team Member of the [Indeterminate Time Period].

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#603 - 2012-09-19 23:14:43 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
So I did promise earlier in the tread to try to call out what I consider to be good moderation. I realized I haven't really been doing that. Squeaky wheels and kicks and all that.

So, without further ado, I want to call out ISD Dorrim Barstorlode. He seems to get what the third letter in your title means: CCL (Community Communications Liaison). Liaison means that the first job is to interact positively with the target of your Liaising (what an odd word), and that's something ISD DB (because there are just too many "r"s in his name to spell) does very well, frequently posting in threads as a positive contributor rather than simply reporting on what moderation action he's performed. In addition to being an effective Liaison, his judicious use of of his moderation powers have given him this spot on CCL Team Member of the [Indeterminate Time Period].




Liaising, wwoooooo look at you, with your big words P

Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
FyntiPT
Doomheim
#604 - 2012-09-21 19:46:40 UTC
Btw how it possible take more then 4days to answer to a petition???? at 1 year ago the support was better now.... hmmm maybe this support work better just only for some players...

Srsly... 1 or 2 days ok but 1 WEEK.... i must say to my friend that he must choose a "better" alliance loool
Pipa Porto
#605 - 2012-09-22 01:41:33 UTC
FyntiPT wrote:
Btw how it possible take more then 4days to answer to a petition???? at 1 year ago the support was better now.... hmmm maybe this support work better just only for some players...

Srsly... 1 or 2 days ok but 1 WEEK.... i must say to my friend that he must choose a "better" alliance loool



Hate to break it to you, but ISDs are not GMs, so whining about petition times isn't gonna do much in this thread.

Might try looking here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117446&find=unread

The reason petitions take a long time is that many players fill the queue with the most ridiculous terrible crap possible.

GM Homonoia wrote:
On average current creation rates fluctuate between 1100 and 1400 new petitions each day


That's why your petition is taking time. On top of that, there's the possibility that your petition is complex and needs extra research to respond to, or you weren't able to make it particularly intelligible, or any number of other individual reasons for delay.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#606 - 2012-09-22 07:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: The Antiquarian
Bart Starr wrote:
Yeah, that ISD40 needs to go.

After the recent attack on the US embassy I posted some admittedly strong opinions about the current event.
Yeah, it was somewhat political (critical of Hillary Clinton and her boss), and I slipped an fbomb in there. OK, I was kind of pissed off, but against the rules, probably right to have been locked.

What I didn't appreciate was ISD40 replacing the post with an accusation of racism. Disliking the president isn't automatically racism, nor is suggesting that Marines should be posted in dangerous Arab nations so they can kill or deter Islamic terrorists.

Yet the entire post was removed, the thread title edited from "Hillary Clinton, Two words: Hire Blackwater. Now." to LOCKED.
and a snotty note left behind which implied that I made racial attacks.

These forums have taken a big turn for the worse lately and these new 'enforcers'' are a big part of the problem.



You should be grateful that ISD40 did not ban your sorry-arse forum rights. After having to peruse at least a dozen of your threads, it started to make more sense as to why ISDs were locking your threads.

You insisted that ISDs are showing some kind of favoritism here over "content-less" threads. How does Obama and Hilary's ineptitude, in any way, relates to EVE Online? And for Christ's sake, I am a Republican and I also have certain distaste against his policies, but I don't delve that low by writing something so childish and politically sensitive on a freaken gaming forum.

Are you so neglected by your peers and communities that you have to resort to writing your senseless political jibberish on EVE Online forum and berate on ISDs? Grow up man.
Frying Doom
#607 - 2012-09-24 05:05:17 UTC
I am more interested in ISD40's locks for necro titles.

Now I thought that if a title was unused for a period of time it was auto locked.

If it is not how is this necro'd, if CCP want to say a topic is necro why don't they just make the auto lock quicker.

No title should ever be locked by an ISD for necro, it should only be automatic.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#608 - 2012-09-24 13:36:21 UTC
One thing, ISDs and even devs in some cases have repeatedly moved threads posted by NPC alts to CAOD, where posting with an NPC alt is disallowed. Can you not turn that forum into a dumping ground for really dumb threads posted by sockpuppet alts?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#609 - 2012-09-25 04:33:49 UTC
The Antiquarian wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Yeah, that ISD40 needs to go.

After the recent attack on the US embassy I posted some admittedly strong opinions about the current event.
Yeah, it was somewhat political (critical of Hillary Clinton and her boss), and I slipped an fbomb in there. OK, I was kind of pissed off, but against the rules, probably right to have been locked.

What I didn't appreciate was ISD40 replacing the post with an accusation of racism. Disliking the president isn't automatically racism, nor is suggesting that Marines should be posted in dangerous Arab nations so they can kill or deter Islamic terrorists.

Yet the entire post was removed, the thread title edited from "Hillary Clinton, Two words: Hire Blackwater. Now." to LOCKED.
and a snotty note left behind which implied that I made racial attacks.

These forums have taken a big turn for the worse lately and these new 'enforcers'' are a big part of the problem.



You should be grateful that ISD40 did not ban your sorry-arse forum rights. After having to peruse at least a dozen of your threads, it started to make more sense as to why ISDs were locking your threads.

You insisted that ISDs are showing some kind of favoritism here over "content-less" threads. How does Obama and Hilary's ineptitude, in any way, relates to EVE Online? And for Christ's sake, I am a Republican and I also have certain distaste against his policies, but I don't delve that low by writing something so childish and politically sensitive on a freaken gaming forum.

Are you so neglected by your peers and communities that you have to resort to writing your senseless political jibberish on EVE Online forum and berate on ISDs? Grow up man.


A) It was in Out of Pod Experience. Its where you talk about stuff other than EVE, genius.
B) I don't need a B), I already destroyed the point of your entire post.

And I didn't have a problem with the thread being locked. It was political and a vent. I do have a problem with the post being edited, then being called out as a racist by an ISD when the post contained nothing of the sort.
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#610 - 2012-09-25 05:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bart Starr
Oh, and here's an example of why I am critical of the ISDs.

According to ISD's - "Not a rant" - Its been floating in Ships and Fits for over a month now, up to six pages.

Quote:
"Ccp you suck seriously you removed 50percent of my capacity and i should be happy for you allowing me to pay to playi know peeps who are goiing to quit playing becauuse of your action why. Cant you leave the good thing alone why do you always mess them up"


Thats it, the entire OP. Yet, still it circulates on the front page.

On the other hand:
"A rant" that was locked within 3 minutes of being posted on GD. Got one like and a positive response first.

Quote:

#10. Replacing the old and useful with the new and ******. Off the top of my head, forums and inventory system.
#9. Warp to Zero and Jump Freighters. (that noise you hear? Eve getting smaller)
#8. War dec 'fix' - "Hey lets make them MORE expensive and just as useless. Its not like we want ships to die or anything..."
#7. Introduction of ISD Ministry of Truth. (Minitrue) Its double plus good! Really.
#6. Boot.ini - Deleted!
#5. Continued failure to remove local chat from null sec.
#4. Concord Buffs, #1, #2, #3, and #4. (not safe enough, nope still not safe enough. No, not yet. Yeah, thats the stuff...wait! no)
#3. Ending Hulkageddon. (emergent play? Who needs it, they should be grinding LVL4s, I mean incursions, I mean milking FW)
#2. Betting the company on Dust and Space Barbies. (the future is in the hands of....13 year old console players?????)
#1. Letting Greyscale design anything that doesn't involve Crayons.


You may quibble with my rank order, but I'm pretty sure I'm spot on.

I'm working on a Top 10 list of "Bart's least favorite ISD/GM/DEVs as well." As of now, its a work in progress. Check back tomorrow, same bat-time, same bat-channel.


Note the humor, accuracy and the format is easy on the eyes.
But its 'unconstructive and a rant' simply because, I don't know - I can't CCP's problems for them, maybe.

Don't even get me started about the grab-assing on the Like and Get Likes and Avatar above me threads. "Helloooo, Rule #17.....Posts must be EVE related"

Is it any surprise ISD's aren't taken seriously?
ShipToaster
#611 - 2012-09-25 08:50:42 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I am more interested in ISD40's locks for necro titles.

Now I thought that if a title was unused for a period of time it was auto locked.

If it is not how is this necro'd, if CCP want to say a topic is necro why don't they just make the auto lock quicker.

No title should ever be locked by an ISD for necro, it should only be automatic.


I agree with this. I cannot seem to find any forum rules relating to necroing threads and am hoping this information can be conveyed to the playerbase.

Yesterdays post I made on this topic appears to have been removed. It broke no forum rules and has been petitioned.

.
Pipa Porto
#612 - 2012-09-25 10:53:33 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
On the other hand:
"A rant" that was locked within 3 minutes of being posted on GD. Got one like and a positive response first.

Quote:

#10. Replacing the old and useful with the new and ******. Off the top of my head, forums and inventory system.
#9. Warp to Zero and Jump Freighters. (that noise you hear? Eve getting smaller)
#8. War dec 'fix' - "Hey lets make them MORE expensive and just as useless. Its not like we want ships to die or anything..."
#7. Introduction of ISD Ministry of Truth. (Minitrue) Its double plus good! Really.
#6. Boot.ini - Deleted!
#5. Continued failure to remove local chat from null sec.
#4. Concord Buffs, #1, #2, #3, and #4. (not safe enough, nope still not safe enough. No, not yet. Yeah, thats the stuff...wait! no)
#3. Ending Hulkageddon. (emergent play? Who needs it, they should be grinding LVL4s, I mean incursions, I mean milking FW)
#2. Betting the company on Dust and Space Barbies. (the future is in the hands of....13 year old console players?????)
#1. Letting Greyscale design anything that doesn't involve Crayons.


You may quibble with my rank order, but I'm pretty sure I'm spot on.

I'm working on a Top 10 list of "Bart's least favorite ISD/GM/DEVs as well." As of now, its a work in progress. Check back tomorrow, same bat-time, same bat-channel.


Note the humor, accuracy and the format is easy on the eyes.
But its 'unconstructive and a rant' simply because, I don't know - I can't CCP's problems for them, maybe.

Don't even get me started about the grab-assing on the Like and Get Likes and Avatar above me threads. "Helloooo, Rule #17.....Posts must be EVE related"

Is it any surprise ISD's aren't taken seriously?


Hmm, could be because of [bolded].

Even without those, a simple list of one-liner complaints doesn't particularly lend itself to constructive discussion.

The barge thread made a single complaint and (with just some small amount of outside context*), explained that complaint reasonably well.

*You have to know about Cargo Hulks.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#613 - 2012-09-25 12:43:42 UTC
ShipToaster wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I am more interested in ISD40's locks for necro titles.

Now I thought that if a title was unused for a period of time it was auto locked.

If it is not how is this necro'd, if CCP want to say a topic is necro why don't they just make the auto lock quicker.

No title should ever be locked by an ISD for necro, it should only be automatic.


I agree with this. I cannot seem to find any forum rules relating to necroing threads and am hoping this information can be conveyed to the playerbase.

Yesterdays post I made on this topic appears to have been removed. It broke no forum rules and has been petitioned.



Hopefully it is against the rules to necro. Or to keep things fair, they might wait a few months, then necro that petition and get back with you.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Pipa Porto
#614 - 2012-09-25 17:38:53 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I am more interested in ISD40's locks for necro titles.

Now I thought that if a title was unused for a period of time it was auto locked.

If it is not how is this necro'd, if CCP want to say a topic is necro why don't they just make the auto lock quicker.

No title should ever be locked by an ISD for necro, it should only be automatic.


There's a difference between necroing a thread to troll it and necroing a thread because you have something to add.

The Necro'd threads that I've seen locked have all fallen in the first category.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ghazu
#615 - 2012-09-27 07:46:17 UTC
I think all ISDs should be given a big bag of 7 day read onlys that can be handed out like candy.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Jason Marshall
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#616 - 2012-09-27 13:26:03 UTC
After a 3 month forum ban for asking a question about pants. Im glad that I helped in some small way to make this thread happen.
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#617 - 2012-09-27 15:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: MailDeadDrop
I know next to nothing about the "behind the scenes" machinations of the "report post" flag. Does it send reports to senior CCL people when the flagged post is one from ISD? If not, can it be altered to do so? I'm thinking that doing a "report post" on ISD posts that I disagree with might provide an effective feedback on the quality of their ISD members' moderation.

MDD
Josef Djugashvilis
#618 - 2012-09-27 16:00:36 UTC
I think a mininum age of 21 to be a part of the ISD team would really help.

This is not a signature.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#619 - 2012-09-27 17:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
MailDeadDrop wrote:
I know next to nothing about the "behind the scenes" machinations of the "report post" flag. Does it send reports to senior CCL people when the flagged post is one from ISD? If not, can it be altered to do so? I'm thinking that doing a "report post" on ISD posts that I disagree with might provide an effective feedback on the quality of their ISD members' moderation.

MDD


Hi there,

If a post by an ISD member is reported, then we're (CCL) forbidden from dealing with it and it is escalated to the community team at CCP.

Part of being in CCL is the requirement that all moderators have to be on-line in our special IRC channel, as we often have to discuss the actions that are about to be taken.

If an ISD post is reported then as a lead I may email the chat-logs to CCP, depending on what has happened; but that's as far as we get involved.

I hope this helps!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#620 - 2012-09-27 18:44:45 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
I know next to nothing about the "behind the scenes" machinations of the "report post" flag. Does it send reports to senior CCL people when the flagged post is one from ISD? If not, can it be altered to do so? I'm thinking that doing a "report post" on ISD posts that I disagree with might provide an effective feedback on the quality of their ISD members' moderation.

MDD


Hi there,

If a post by an ISD member is reported, then we're (CCL) forbidden from dealing with it and it is escalated to the community team at CCP.

Part of being in CCL is the requirement that all moderators have to be on-line in our special IRC channel, as we often have to discuss the actions that are about to be taken.

If an ISD post is reported then as a lead I may email the chat-logs to CCP, depending on what has happened; but that's as far as we get involved.

I hope this helps!

That is awesome, I had no idea.


So we can use this as a tool for clearly reporting what we think was wrong with moderation, and as long as we are polite and don't abuse it, we won't get smacked (forumwise)?