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Is 180b isk per week from factional warfare normal? Is it balanced?
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Selinate
#41 - 2012-09-24 00:53:00 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Andski wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
According to the anti-high sec zealots, no number is ridiculous, as long as it is not high sec.
So yeah, running around with a 3 day alt in a speed tanked Incurses, with zero weapons, orbiting low sec plexes for a payout, yeah, billions and billions of ISK / week is entirely reasonable. But for a high sec player to make 1 hundredth of that, oh no, that is unbalancing the game.

You have not figured out yet the agenda of most of the CSM and some element of CCP employees.


lol shut up

this whole FW thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting till the next expansion to fix it, but that doesn't mean that your risk-free 120m/hour vanguard farming should come back


It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.


You're bitching about CCP making missions interesting?

Jesus Christ, why do you people even play video games? I can't understand for the life of me targeting the same semi-worthless rats over and over just to farm isk.
Pipa Porto
#42 - 2012-09-24 01:08:44 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Where it once would have been a sink of 80M w/o Teir 5


Say I have 100 LP and 10,000 ISK. At T1, a widget costs 100LP and 10,000ISK. At T5, that widget costs 25LP and 2,500 ISK.

At T1, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 1 Widget.
At T5, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 4 Widgets.

Same amount of ISK sunk, greater amount of stuff produced => Greater deflationary pressure.


Unless the demand was elastic you are not going to be selling 4X widgets in the same amount of time. What you are seeing here is a 75% degradation of the ISK sink maybe a little less if demand goes up due to it selling for a cheaper price.


What happens after the ISK and LP is converted to items is irrelevant with regards to the monetary supply. Or are you claiming that people leave LP unconverted?

And prices decreasing is exactly what you'd expect if the balance of pressures tended towards the deflationary, so now you're just making points against your claim that FW is an ISK faucet or in any way inflationary.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-09-24 01:11:25 UTC
Selinate wrote:
You're bitching about CCP making missions interesting?

Jesus Christ, why do you people even play video games? I can't understand for the life of me targeting the same semi-worthless rats over and over just to farm isk.


already answered that:

Andski wrote:
high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#44 - 2012-09-24 01:17:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch


I'm sensing elitism. 
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Pipa Porto
#45 - 2012-09-24 01:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Mars Theran wrote:
Andski wrote:
high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch


I'm sensing elitism.


Since that conversation thread started here:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.


where a representative of the HS community started whining that CCP is improving his missions, elitism is entirely appropriate.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Trendon Evenstar
Olympus Gods
#46 - 2012-09-24 02:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Trendon Evenstar
From Amamake local:

Saidra Whitewolf > almost 12 billion in profit in one day
Saidra Whitewolf > i love militia

Smile
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-09-24 03:01:59 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
1. prices that show in hangers are no where near what they are really valued at but if all that is from 7 days of work , it's still a good amount
2. No way he did that on one account. He probably was running multiple, multiple accounts so that is not what your average player will make


So Lyron have you been able to sell that 20 billion ISK's worth of items you got from your first Tier 5 cash out?
If so how long did it take?


Nahh, I still got most of it and more. I sell some items as I need isk but I'm trying to save it for when the nerf hits and prices go back to normal. Been slacking off a bit as I'm now employed so can't run as many sites as I use to.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do after the nerf but no ideas yet
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#48 - 2012-09-24 04:17:08 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
1. prices that show in hangers are no where near what they are really valued at but if all that is from 7 days of work , it's still a good amount
2. No way he did that on one account. He probably was running multiple, multiple accounts so that is not what your average player will make


So Lyron have you been able to sell that 20 billion ISK's worth of items you got from your first Tier 5 cash out?
If so how long did it take?


Nahh, I still got most of it and more. I sell some items as I need isk but I'm trying to save it for when the nerf hits and prices go back to normal. Been slacking off a bit as I'm now employed so can't run as many sites as I use to.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do after the nerf but no ideas yet


When markets get flooded to that degree, you'll likely be waiting a very long time after a fix before prices approach what you consider "normal".
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#49 - 2012-09-24 04:45:43 UTC
Sisi is hard
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2012-09-24 06:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Akirei Scytale wrote:

When markets get flooded to that degree, you'll likely be waiting a very long time after a fix before prices approach what you consider "normal".



Still making ******** amounts of ISK per week off faction ammo (which everyone uses) and +5 Implants/Hardwires, which albeit sell slower, but are still pretty steady sellers even if you have to move them around a few times.

With the 51-day refer-a-friend trial accounts, you can train a character into a slasher and semi-afk plex all day with minimal risk; Minimal meaning if you think the possibility of losing a 500k ISK frigate is risk while making 75-80k LP an hour per account. All you need to do this is a stopwatch app and some quiet systems.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#51 - 2012-09-24 06:10:36 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Sisi is hard

...to install and get up and running without reading a zillion pages on the work-around.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#52 - 2012-09-24 06:19:48 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
And with every FW Tier 5 attained the inflation of PLEX has skyrocketed now at a near all time high once again... where are all the tears about how FW is ruining the economy like Incursions were?


FW doesn't cause inflation. Inflation is caused by ISK Faucets. FW is an ISK Sink, not a Faucet. Incursions were an ISK Faucet.



All the Porto's are Goonswarm alts that spreas disinformation.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#53 - 2012-09-24 06:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Where it once would have been a sink of 80M w/o Teir 5


Say I have 100 LP and 10,000 ISK. At T1, a widget costs 100LP and 10,000ISK. At T5, that widget costs 25LP and 2,500 ISK.

At T1, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 1 Widget.
At T5, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 4 Widgets.

Same amount of ISK sunk, greater amount of stuff produced => Greater deflationary pressure.


Unless the demand was elastic you are not going to be selling 4X widgets in the same amount of time. What you are seeing here is a 75% degradation of the ISK sink maybe a little less if demand goes up due to it selling for a cheaper price.


What happens after the ISK and LP is converted to items is irrelevant with regards to the monetary supply. Or are you claiming that people leave LP unconverted?

And prices decreasing is exactly what you'd expect if the balance of pressures tended towards the deflationary, so now you're just making points against your claim that FW is an ISK faucet or in any way inflationary.


I never claimed FW was an ISK faucet: I am saying it reduces the LP store ISK sink function over the long run due to inelasticity of most all the faction items demand.
I also believe the WILD amounts of ISK being made thru the sales of these faction items is causing the inflation for the price of PLEX
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#54 - 2012-09-24 06:24:30 UTC
Andski wrote:
Nullsec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues in hi-sec and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of introducing any new WiS content such as the Nex store or dream about going near moon mining and sovereignty with their revamp bats without giving them more pew pew or bang for their sovereignty & blobbish buck.

they want to make hi-sec levels of income plummet into non-existence while stripping local and demanding that hi-sec bears and new players can only serve them as their tackle rifter fodder in their quest to reconquer Delve without being able to play the game the way they want to.


Fixed it for you.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2012-09-24 06:41:52 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:

I never claimed FW was an ISK faucet: I am saying it reduces the LP store ISK sink function over the long run due to inelasticity of most all the faction items demand.
I also believe the WILD amounts of ISK being made thru the sales of these faction items is causing the inflation for the price of PLEX


I blame the rising price of PLEX on simply asking people to pay glorious sums of ISK for items you either don't have, or won't sell anyway, and getting it.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-09-24 07:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Asuka Solo wrote:
Andski wrote:
Nullsec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues in hi-sec and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of introducing any new WiS content such as the Nex store or dream about going near moon mining and sovereignty with their revamp bats without giving them more pew pew or bang for their sovereignty & blobbish buck.

they want to make hi-sec levels of income plummet into non-existence while stripping local and demanding that hi-sec bears and new players can only serve them as their tackle rifter fodder in their quest to reconquer Delve without being able to play the game the way they want to.


Fixed it for you.



a lot of the nullsec anger during the summer of rage was based on the fact that CCP gave us three dumb expansions - Dominion with its awful sovereignty system that eliminated surprise attacks and required groups to concentrate everything on one timer at a time, Tyrannis with PI and *gasp* a salvaging boat, Incursion with the isk firehose that it introduced into the game that was not fixed for a year, and after those three worthless expansions, we got Incarna which introduced a crappy singleplayer captain's quarters and a dumb cash shop

i'm sorry that you're wrong!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Josef Djugashvilis
#57 - 2012-09-24 07:45:51 UTC
Andski wrote:
high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch


I just wish I was still young enough to 'throw tantrums'

Why do you make the assertion that us hi-sec folk want to make null sec levels of income?

Please provide evidence that I (as a typical hi-sec player) have asked for this.

If I recall correctly, when I asked about null sec levels of income I was given an average figure of 30 mill per hour, so it seems that the levels of income are already comparable.

Oh, and please drop the 'bloo bloo bloo' bit, it just makes you seem like a 10 year old child.

This is not a signature.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#58 - 2012-09-24 07:57:02 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
when I asked about null sec levels of income I was given an average figure of 30 mill per hour


If anyone making only 30m/hr in null, then something is terribly wrong. I am hisec dweller mostly, but occasionaly i go ninja rat to null. 80m/hr is no problem in null. Of course you have to know which regions, what tactics, chances to intercept officers etc. Same rules are in hisec. If anyone is whining that hisec pilots earns too much and more than nullsec pilot, maybe its time to review their abilities and skills in earning isk. Problem is in pilots, not EvE mechanics.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Pipa Porto
#59 - 2012-09-24 08:57:15 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
And with every FW Tier 5 attained the inflation of PLEX has skyrocketed now at a near all time high once again... where are all the tears about how FW is ruining the economy like Incursions were?


FW doesn't cause inflation. Inflation is caused by ISK Faucets. FW is an ISK Sink, not a Faucet. Incursions were an ISK Faucet.


All the Porto's are Goonswarm alts that spreas disinformation.


Describe for me then, the way FW creates ISK and injects it into the Economy. Please note that if you are selling an item to another player, no ISK is being created.

Anyway, I didn't know there was more than one of me. Have I been cloned without my knowledge?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#60 - 2012-09-24 08:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
DarthNefarius wrote:
I never claimed FW was an ISK faucet: I am saying it reduces the LP store ISK sink function over the long run due to inelasticity of most all the faction items demand.
I also believe the WILD amounts of ISK being made thru the sales of these faction items is causing the inflation for the price of PLEX


The only possible way that's true is if a significant amount of LP is left unredeemed. The ISK is sunk as soon as you accept the LP store offer. The status of the market for items is entirely irrelevant to any discussion of Faucets.

By the way, you claimed that FW caused inflation. In EVE, the only way to create inflationary pressure is through ISK Faucets or net Material sinks (as Inflation is the increase in the amount of money in an economy compared to the amount of [stuff] that the money can buy). FW is neither.

The other real world sources for inflationary pressure (like fractional reserve banking) don't exist for EVE.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto