These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Is 180b isk per week from factional warfare normal? Is it balanced?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#21 - 2012-09-23 23:29:00 UTC
Just because it says estimated 185 billion, doesn't really mean it is that much. I have found many times the estimated price far outweighs the actual price due to people having outrageous prices on things, like when people want to "launder" ISK.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-09-23 23:48:38 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It appears that CCP is too busy collaborating with you null sec zealots again to fix FW.
I just read about the new high sec AI that will attack drones, and then the NUMEROUS posts by the dev Fox Four gloating about it.
I have to hand it to you guys. You have a well honed machine there: an enormous propaganda team inundating the forums ceaselessly with lies to further your agenda, a CSM dominated by null sec, and then some unknown quantity of very sympathetic dev's.


ahahaha "null sec zealots" abloo bloo bloo

guess what, nullsec NPCs will attack drones just the same

stop getting upset over your risk-free isk firehose having been nerfed tia

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-09-23 23:52:26 UTC
Sm4kahm Shalloola wrote:
A touch of pot and kettle.

this whole Moon Goo thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting TWO expansions to attempt to fix it, BUT in the mean time the FW isk fountain will supplement my other alt characters/PLEX accounts before they do...

fix't for you.

lol you shut up.


CCP has already stated their intention to make alliance income bottom-up rather than top-down so lmao get 0wned

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-09-23 23:55:34 UTC
high-sec is full of entitled children who will throw tantrums and unsub, shoot statues and complain whenever CCP even entertains the thought of nerfing one of their hilariously easy-mode PvE isk faucets like incursions and L4s

they want to make nullsec levels of income while in highsec and demanding that CCP gives them a thick helmet, elbow and knee pads, training wheels and continues making the space safer and less risky, i.e. crimewatch

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Pipa Porto
#25 - 2012-09-24 00:08:31 UTC
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
And with every FW Tier 5 attained the inflation of PLEX has skyrocketed now at a near all time high once again... where are all the tears about how FW is ruining the economy like Incursions were?


FW doesn't cause inflation. Inflation is caused by ISK Faucets. FW is an ISK Sink, not a Faucet. Incursions were an ISK Faucet.



Your logic is flawed. Both give LP, but one is a sink, and one is a faucet? Shocked


Incursions give out massive amounts of ISK, and take a relatively small amount of that ISK to convert the LP.

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.

DarthNefarius wrote:
So you are telling me every price spike that acompanies FW Teir 5 is not inflating the price of PLEX. Roll
FYI there are many things that can cause inflation go reread your Freshman econ book for a few hints. Blink


Anyhoo... looks like CCP has finally done the math too and realizes that the FW ISK reduction in the LP store is degrading the ISK sink function of LP stores so they are taking it away ( not too soon enough )


Generally speaking, Inflation is the increase in the monetary supply relative to everything else. Does FW increase the amount of ISK in the game? Nope, in fact it reduces the amount of ISK in the game. Does FW reduce the amount of everything else? Nope.
Do Incursions increase the amount of ISK in the game? Hell, yes. Do Incursions reduce the amount of everything else? Nope.

Ergo, Incursions provide an inflationary pressure while FW provides a deflationary pressure on the game's economy.

One item increasing in price does not indicate inflation. In the case of PLEX, I'd say that PLEX prices indicate how easy it is to make money; prices go up when it gets easier to make money and down when it gets harder*. Regardless, PLEX is not a basket of goods, and you need a basket of goods to measure inflation.

*When making money is easier, more people want to buy them (as it takes less time to earn a PLEX) and fewer people want to sell (because grinding that ISK instead of selling PLEX is easier). When it's harder, fewer people want to buy them (as it takes more time to earn a PLEX) and more people want to sell (because grinding that ISK instead of selling PLEX is harder).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#26 - 2012-09-24 00:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Wasn't that the screenshot from the goons before it all got taken away?

I was thinking that too... don't think this is real in any event (at least the part of it taking a week is false)

Signatures should be used responsibly...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-09-24 00:10:12 UTC
Andski wrote:
Sm4kahm Shalloola wrote:
A touch of pot and kettle.

this whole Moon Goo thing is dumb and CCP should be fixing it sooner rather than waiting TWO expansions to attempt to fix it, BUT in the mean time the FW isk fountain will supplement my other alt characters/PLEX accounts before they do...

fix't for you.

lol you shut up.


CCP has already stated their intention to make alliance income bottom-up rather than top-down so lmao get 0wned

How is alchemy supposed to accomplish this?

I heard SotG and it sounds like they're just screwing things up more than fixing them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#28 - 2012-09-24 00:16:48 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.


FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2012-09-24 00:18:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

How is alchemy supposed to accomplish this?

I heard SotG and it sounds like they're just screwing things up more than fixing them.


The are going to remove moon mining and make it something to mine with a ship.
Rengerel en Distel
#30 - 2012-09-24 00:18:49 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.


FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.


Reducing the amount of isk it takes to buy the goods doesn't make it less a sink, just less of a sink. If you spend 20M and make 80M, it's still a sink of 20M, regardless of the profit.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2012-09-24 00:19:01 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.


FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.


Its still not injecting any isk though is it?
Pipa Porto
#32 - 2012-09-24 00:21:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
How is alchemy supposed to accomplish this?

I heard SotG and it sounds like they're just screwing things up more than fixing them.


They're going for the tried and true method of "Nerf the current Income source first then never get around to introducing the new one" which worked so well in Dominion*


*Changes to R64s were intended to reduce alliance level income derived from fixed sources, while the Space Feudalism contracts were intended to allow Alliances to more directly tax and control their income stream derived from the newly buffed ratting. One of those things never happened (and, as it happens, they cocked up the other one).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#33 - 2012-09-24 00:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.


FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.


Reducing the amount of isk it takes to buy the goods doesn't make it less a sink, just less of a sink. If you spend 20M and make 80M, it's still a sink of 20M, regardless of the profit.



Where it once would have been a sink of 80M w/o Teir 5

baltec1 wrote:

Its still not injecting any isk though is it?


But it is keeping more ISK in the economy unless demand goes up correspondingly ( which it aint I doubt implant market is elastic ammo may be a little but no where near as much as the ISK reductions are )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Pipa Porto
#34 - 2012-09-24 00:25:37 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

FW gives out LP and no ISK, requiring the economy to sink ISK into it to convert the LP.


FW currently ( come winter it no longer will) also reduces the ISK sink per item which overtime is reducing the ISK sink function.
Too bad CCP Diagoras isno longer around to publish stats regarding the windfall known as FW.


So? FW removes ISK from the economy. The Tier system doesn't alter the proportion of ISK to LP needed to extract LP, so all it does is change the amount of stuff that gets extracted for a given amount of ISK sunk. As it happens, because higher tiers increase the amount of *stuff* in the game by a larger amount for a given amount of ISK sunk, they're an even greater deflationary force than lower tiers.

Remember, Inflation is a relative increase in the money supply, so when more stuff enters the economy without bringing new ISK into the economy (or in FWs case, while removing ISK), a deflationary pressure is exterted.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-09-24 00:26:56 UTC
pro-broken incursion lobby still doesn't what an "isk fountain" is in non-shocker
Pipa Porto
#36 - 2012-09-24 00:28:12 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Where it once would have been a sink of 80M w/o Teir 5


Say I have 100 LP and 10,000 ISK. At T1, a widget costs 100LP and 10,000ISK. At T5, that widget costs 25LP and 2,500 ISK.

At T1, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 1 Widget.
At T5, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 4 Widgets.

Same amount of ISK sunk, greater amount of stuff produced => Greater deflationary pressure.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-09-24 00:28:18 UTC
1. prices that show in hangers are no where near what they are really valued at but if all that is from 7 days of work , it's still a good amount
2. No way he did that on one account. He probably was running multiple, multiple accounts so that is not what your average player will make
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#38 - 2012-09-24 00:31:57 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Pipa Porto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Where it once would have been a sink of 80M w/o Teir 5


Say I have 100 LP and 10,000 ISK. At T1, a widget costs 100LP and 10,000ISK. At T5, that widget costs 25LP and 2,500 ISK.

At T1, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 1 Widget.
At T5, I sink 100LP and 10,000 ISK and provide 4 Widgets.

Same amount of ISK sunk, greater amount of stuff produced => Greater deflationary pressure.


Unless the demand was elastic you are not going to be selling 4X widgets in the same amount of time. What you are seeing here is a 75% degradation of the ISK sink maybe a little less if demand goes up due to it selling for a cheaper price.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#39 - 2012-09-24 00:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
1. prices that show in hangers are no where near what they are really valued at but if all that is from 7 days of work , it's still a good amount
2. No way he did that on one account. He probably was running multiple, multiple accounts so that is not what your average player will make


So Lyron have you been able to sell that 20 billion ISK's worth of items you got from your first Tier 5 cash out?
If so how long did it take?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2012-09-24 00:43:06 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


baltec1 wrote:

Its still not injecting any isk though is it?


But it is keeping more ISK in the economy unless demand goes up correspondingly ( which it aint I doubt implant market is elastic ammo may be a little but no where near as much as the ISK reductions are )


Its making things cheaper so more of it gets bought which means its not as big a drop as many would assume. It is also still an isk sink unlike incursions.