Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have long felt that EVE needed more game in it's game. The AI changes are much needed and long in coming... but in giving the NPC's aggro mechanics we also need the ability to deal with that, or else these changes will only harm groups attempting the PvE content. For myself, this mostly deals with missions, though there are other areas where these changes will have a harmful effect as well if some new tools for dealing with the new AI aren't provided.

Most games, that shall not be named, deal with aggro by the rather klunky mechanic of giving tanking characters the ability to taunt NPC's into attacking them and ignoring the squishier members of the group. I don't really think that's appropriate for EVE, though I suppose some kind of Ewar could have the effect of transfering target locks onto the the tanking ship.

The solution I propose is to allow larger ships to use their size to defend smaller ships. While attempting to use collision detection to allow shots to impact on the environment or a big ship between you and your enemy would be awesome, it's also apparently very hard to do and is simply not feasable. As a work around, I suggest using comparative signiture size and proximity to larger ships in your fleet to provide defense to smaller ships.

For instance, you enter a mission with a couple of frigates and a battleship. The battleship is primarily set up for defense, having heavy sheilds or armor, and capable of handling the damage coming from the NPC's. The Frigates are set up mostly for damage and speed. So long as the frigates stay near the battleship, the majority of damage coming at them is instead passed to the battleship, in essence they are hiding in it's signature giving them a chance to recieve reps or use a local rep, then darting out from the battleship to engage targets when healthy. A cruiser would get less of this benefit, as it's own signature is larger.

This would allow mixed fleets to escort and compliment eachother, while still allowing a variety of fits instead of everyone in a mission having to come in with a battleship capable of tanking the room if needed. It also puts things like target painters in a new light, as they would allow smaller ships to be painted out of the shadow of a larger ship, or provide an ad hoc defense by painting your own anchoring ship. The trade off is that to recieve the benefit smaller ships lose their advantage in mobility by being forced to match pace with the larger ships.

Ideally this concept would come with modules to aid it, like a Hull Upgrade "Stealth Coatings" low slot that reduces signature, or a mid slot "White Noise Generator" that bloats a ships signature to increase the range and effect of the anchoring ship.

Hello,

I like this idea. It would give some tactical advantage for bringing a larger ship to "soak" the damage the smaller ships might receive, giving a decent fighting chance.

There are a few things that I have concern with:

1) Large fleet fights. Bringing in a Brick Titan with Armor HACs staying close to pick off closer targets will make it a very quick way for a stalemate, or very long battles. Logi staying close to a cap has the tank of the cap with the repping of all the logi there, which very well might be very bad. Might bring back some sniper fleets with having the defense of a cap while closer range tankier ships moving in to hold targets.

2) A BS with the new t1 logi close to it might be far harder to kill than originally intended. Especially for small gangs or wolf packs.


As a slight tweak, it might be good to slightly change your proposal to: Ships of the same size or smaller than the ship being protected will not have full protection, or any. This way smaller ships can still pose a threat and make it less overpowered(?) for pvp.

The "shield" concept is kind of interesting... but...

I intend to counter better AI with better I.

Indeed... But without tools to do so, what exactly is your plan when you enter a mission with a couple of newbie buddies who are still rattling around in their poorly fit frigs and the swarm of elite frigs targets them?

I'd like the option of doing something other than telling them to stay out of the mission until the frigates and cruisers are dead, because there isn't a second option due to their skills and experiance.

If we are sticking to easier stuff, like level 3's maybe.


Think about the sheer number of frigates in some level 4 missions, and imagine taking a poorly fit t1 frigate in there, because you are a character barely out of a trial.

The way things are now, all of the frigates, and some of the cruisers will aggro your Lolship buddy. A propper ship and fitting for surviving L4 frigates and a cruiser or 3 isn't an option. His only option, assuming hes not tackled, is to warp out and stay gone until all the frigates and cruisers are dead, and then hope a bored BS doesn't decide to target him for giggles.

Some missoins will be fine, but the bigger ones like Blockade have eaten them a couple of times with current aggro mechanics. That was kind of funny though, he was in a destroyer when a wave of Battlecruisers warped in right on top of him. He didn't have time to say 'oh crap'. But I digress.

It's possible by winter my friends will have skilled up sufficiently that they can properly fit tanks enough on their ships to deal with what we do. They are trying new things, training useless for combat skills like mining and industry, and generally being noobs. I'd hate to have to fit them into a cookie cutter mold because the new AI has limited that playstyle, and anyone who wants to come in and join their buddies for PvE has to play in a certain fashion because the tools are not there to allow them to explore and find their own niche in the game.

The changes they propose end any thought of specializing in small scale pve fleet operations. Everyone will have to have both tank and gank, because there is nothing to allow for the control of incoming damage.

I'm all for putting some AI on rats to make them behave like something more complicated than shiny darts thrown at my ship... but if they are adding in aggro mechanics, then we need tools to deal with the aggro mechanics too. EVE has nothing like that because its never needed it, and now it will.

blockade had a counter in place....it was called faster ship hauling ass to targets under the sensor damp effect and killing ships. Blockade in point of fact is a mission that caters to hac/t3 usage, they eat it up. I got record times in tengu and even cerb on this mission over a rattler/cnr. Key is to when you see this, and not an hml tengu/cerb, spec for SR and prop mod the ship. SR because you will be damped to SR ranges regardless, why have LR weapons with tracking issues and/or less dps as tradeoff for the "sniping" you can't do anyway.

Dessie got popped becasue it was not moving. I do lv's 3 in AF''s when bored and want a thrill. Jags and wolves in fact, no drones. AC spec as well, I like up close and personal. The secret I will share for free is real simple.....never eva stop moving. Unless I missed it, there is no combat skill boost with this. Means rats will still not hit speed/sig tanking ships any better post change. Speed is life....the tl;dr.


Second piece of advice....avoid autoorbit in blockade. What also could have happened to your friend is he hit autorobit and the lovely AI had him do a complete 180 to basically slam the brakes. that gets you popped too. Manual orbit, and the pilot chooses just how he flies after last target dies.


Bringing noobs to power grind lp and isk, they will need to bring their A game with them. Why this AI is going into affect. For years the min/maxers have been stacking the deck with the aggro getting tanky "bait" ships then roll in anothter account or friend drops in with the dps monster spec (read no tank) ship. this change has been asked for for years bro, we are getting it finally. And CCP is not giving any reprieves from it.

Well, train HML based t3 (loki and lego do it as well, not saying you have to go tengu) avoids the issue and technically a reprieve. But hml is getting a damage nerf so pick your poison here.

I'm pretty sure a Lv1 Mission Frigate is not the same as a L4 Mission Frigate.

There is no new AI.

It's just the sleeper AI, tweaked for regular rats. Made even easier than the incursion AI, I should think.

I shall never fit for pve again.

How about a series of modules that improve the tank of all gang members? One set for armour, another for shield. Maybe another for sig radius? These modules could be fitted on a particular ship class, maybe BC hulls. We could even make them boost the RR mods that you can't be bothered to use. Of course, you still might have to bring the BC to the mission, unless of course their was some magical way of making these modules transcend grids.

Something you're not taking into account is that in future, the style of npc combat will be similar to pvp combat, with far less targets in missions to deal with. Your proposal has no impact on pvp mechanics, since players can target whoever they wish, so it should have no bearing in pve either.