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Looking for a Mentor in Trading

Author
Alliria Seedspawn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-17 20:22:38 UTC
I've done mining, hauling, missions and have done null sec anoms and exploration. It's not very thought provoking, and although all the many corporations I've been with have promised me I wouldn't be flying solo - it always inevitably ends up that way. And for good reason really - anoms and missions aren't that difficult, and most can be done solo with a little common sense and the right fittings, so why share the profits, right? I can understand why no one actively seeks out partners for this stuff. And even when they do, it's still pretty mind numbing.

I don't want to hear anything about PvP, as I don't enjoy it. Yes, I've tried it, and no, I don't want to do it again.

So, the way I see it, that leaves trading and manufacturing. I already dabble a little bit in inter-regional trading, but I'm thinking I'd like to get serious about trading. I have my own money to use; I just need some coaching. I do enjoy having access to 0.0 so I can still come down here, so I'd rather not leave my corp.

Is there anyone willing to take me under their wing, so to speak, and teach me about trading? I won't ask you for money, but rather for your opinions, advice, and clarification. What do those market graphs / stats really tell you? How do you determine quantity and price when placing orders? What are some other things you learned the hard way that you're willing to share?

If you require compensation for this, it can be discussed.
Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
#2 - 2012-08-17 23:02:15 UTC
It depends on what type of trading you want to do. Margin Trading or Actual Trading(buy here sell there). My experience has mostly been with margin, since actual gets annoying after awhile, so all my advice will be on margin trading.

First thing is train or buy a trading alt. You will want to keep that alt in the trade hub at all times. I would also recommend sticking to Jita, while the margins are slimmer, the volume makes it easy to flip stock. Think quantity of sales over quality.

I wouldn't recommend training margin trading skill. Its neat to have in certain situations but it can back fire, especially if you maximize your capital.

As for what to buy, price, etc. Look though the market and at as many items as you can. When you look at a item make sure to check price history and "Show Table", looking at the graph only gives a basic(visual) overview of that item. Looking at the table will give you a better idea of volume traded and avg. price. Don't worry so much about the Low and High since that will be messed up from time to time due to bad sales.

When trading look for items that have a large volume traded, this will give you a good idea on your rate of return. If it has a very low volume EVEN if it has a good margin, it usually isn't worth it since your money will just be tied up in that sale. High volume with low margins can be very profitable, if you make large enough purchases. However going back to my earlier point personally I will throw in the occasional "shot in the dark" order for low volume high margin items just for the off chance of getting lucky.

Price should be obvious look at what the current buy orders are at and base it off that. However make sure to check avg price since it may be manipulated or someone is trying to force people out of that market.

Quantity is really a personal preference. Though you should take volume into consideration, so making a order for 10000 when the avg daily volume if 100 isn't a good idea. If you do get into large volume orders I would recommend splitting your orders, that way you can keep up with competition when they try and .01isk you. This goes for both buy and sell orders.

Diversify, Diversify, Diversify. Don't put all your eggs in a single basket. Hell don't even stick to one type of item.

Lastly keep up on your orders, check and update a few times a day. One thing to remember is that you don't have to be at the top of the list at all times, being 2nd-3rd on the list isn't always bad and you will just waste isk changing the orders all the time.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Apologies for the unorganized format and pretty much rambling style, quite tired atm.
Rusty Trades
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-18 02:52:53 UTC
Syler Puuntai wrote:
.
Diversify, Diversify, Diversify. Don't put all your eggs in a single basket. Hell don't even stick to one type of item.


This is great advice... at first it might seem awesome to buy 1000 MLU II's... however when you can only move 25-50 a day you are subject to massive price spikes... What once netted you a tidy profit before, now will allow you to break even or even worse. Also remember, it's better to go into two products that sell 50-75 a day... then buying into one product that sells 100-150 a day. It gives you better chances of being the top seller.

Also, I disagree about Jita being the place to go. I have had massive success in the other trade hubs. It really just depends on how often you can be on and sitting with your alt. You can make very good money in Rens or Dodixie only checking your orders twice a day. But if you play often and will keep up with the .01isk wars, then Jita is the place to be.
Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
#4 - 2012-08-18 09:36:01 UTC
Rusty Trades wrote:


Also, I disagree about Jita being the place to go. I have had massive success in the other trade hubs. It really just depends on how often you can be on and sitting with your alt. You can make very good money in Rens or Dodixie only checking your orders twice a day. But if you play often and will keep up with the .01isk wars, then Jita is the place to be.


Yea was tired and forgot to mention that.
enterprisePSI
#5 - 2012-08-18 10:37:42 UTC
Dodixie is the worst market hub of new eden. Very few profits to be made.

Also

A wise man can hear profit in the wind. Big smile

The tears of the many, outweigh the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi©

Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-18 10:39:41 UTC
With advanced trade-skills you are not forced to stay in the station you are trading at.
Everything can be done remotely if you stay in the same region.
Caelis Boirelle
Aurora Investments
#7 - 2012-08-18 16:45:16 UTC
In lieu of a mentor I strongly recommend you check out the trading guides on evelopedia.

That's where I started and it's stood me in good stead to this day. It's not everything there is to know by any means, but there's as much to learn from just getting out there and trading as there is to reading advice.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#8 - 2012-08-18 17:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
My last student, is doing very well in Dodixie, not a bad hub at all.

Edit part:
If you have no objections, we can discus this via mail or chat, and help you find the strategy that best suits your personality or just teach you what I do, inter regional trade.

as a matter of fact, I regularly take students and seriously teach them what they seek, no trolling, no hidden agenda's, Just quality learning and making new friends along the way.

its always bin free and always will be, all depends on your long term interest on the subject, because one of the most important aspects of being a well diversified merchant is, Patience.
Alliria Seedspawn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-08-19 15:03:30 UTC
I don't think I have the stomach for this margin trading business. Either that or I got in over my head my first time round. Barely broke even....yikes!!

I'll certainly be in touch with you Kara. Thanks!
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-08-20 17:49:33 UTC
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:
I don't think I have the stomach for this margin trading business. Either that or I got in over my head my first time round. Barely broke even....yikes!!

I'll certainly be in touch with you Kara. Thanks!


Most items have weekly cycles. For those items, you don't place buy or sell orders based on current prices, but on price they will be later in the week. This requires experience and math.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#11 - 2012-08-20 22:52:48 UTC
Barakach wrote:
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:
I don't think I have the stomach for this margin trading business. Either that or I got in over my head my first time round. Barely broke even....yikes!!

I'll certainly be in touch with you Kara. Thanks!


Most items have weekly cycles. For those items, you don't place buy or sell orders based on current prices, but on price they will be later in the week. This requires experience and math.


and thats exactly how you lose ISK, prices go up and down, once they go down for various reasons it takes quite a bit of ISK to take them back up, which these new guys certainly don't have.

Its takes intimate knowledge of what goes on and most importantly WHY they go on, once again, the new guys have no clue 95% of the time, although you have the right idea, the implication is doomed for failure, unless you know what goes on and why, again coming back to the loophole, especially if your just getting into tradeing.

Once again, Patience, in that form wont make you much isk, iv done the 5 jump thing before, the margins are slim and the work is hard, the risk is also high.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#12 - 2012-09-18 08:24:08 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
My last student, is doing very well in Dodixie, not a bad hub at all.


Ssssssh.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.

Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-09-23 07:34:15 UTC
I'd have to agree with those above in that, A) it depends on what type of trading you enjoy most, B) if you have an alt(s), which will dictate what methods of trading are easiest for you, and C) diversify over various different variables such as item type, locations, trading method/time-frames, etc.

There's no doubt that if you have an alt then things are easier and quicker in many cases, and this lends itself well to inter-region trading. If you don't have an alt (which I didn't for a some years and still made good returns) then you'll still be able to get very nice profits from methods like station-trading and hot-spot trading (hint: open up your Starmap and think about the information given to you on the "statistics" tab), bulk lot buying, etc

Another aspect of how and what you trade is the time you have available to play. I aim to make my trading as passive as possible while still making considerable profits (i.e. isk while you sleep) - without knowing your preferences on this aspect though it's hard to really provide any guidance. The same can be said for what items you should trade relative to your current funds available, hard to comment without that info.

I'm also cognizant of the fact that this is a public space and you probably don't want to divulge too much info. That being said, feel free to msg me in game if you hit a wall and need a hand, always happy to discuss the market (and cut deals...) with other traders.

Inter-Regional Trading Basics : http://evemogul.info

Daily market tweets : https://twitter.com/EveMogul

Eve Trading Videos - Starring... me! : http://www.youtube.com/user/evemogul

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#14 - 2012-09-26 03:53:05 UTC
enterprisePSI wrote:
Dodixie is the worst market hub of new eden. Very few profits to be made.

Also

A wise man can hear profit in the wind. Big smile


I'd bet that this guy trades in Dodixie and doesn't want more competition.

Rule #22