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The Ore Thief Career
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Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#81 - 2012-09-22 11:05:37 UTC
You'd be surpised how many greedy miners are still jetcan mining with Hulks and Covs.

Also, real men steal ore with Iteron 3's.

Yarr, mateys.

Pirate

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Pipa Porto
#82 - 2012-09-22 11:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Are you serious? I think you actually are.

A ganker chooses (this is quite significant here BTW). Chooses to lose his ship. A ship is part of the cost of ganking. Like ammo and crystals are for missions and Mining. A canflipper choose to Flip ( again, quite a significant part of can flipping) Thereby he CHOSE to be a target to all corp members of his target.


A miner chooses to lose his ship (with some probability) by undocking. That's how EVE works. What's changed is that that probability has dramatically fallen because industrialize ganking is no longer possible. The mining fleet is simply to large for widescale ganking at a loss.

Risk = Loss*Probabity. The Risk (expressed in ISK) involved in losing a 20m ISK ship 100% of the time is 20m ISK. The Risk involved in losing a 200m ISK ship 10% of the time is also 20m ISK.

A miner CHOOSES to put his ship at risk by undocking. The probability of him losing that ship has dropped to near zero, therefore his risk level is near zero.

Quote:
These arguements you give are invalidated, because of the choice they made. Like Mining pre patch. Tank or die. Choice. If a Canflipper flips a can, with 100 corp members in sytem or close by. Sucks to be him. If a Ganker ganks beyond his means sucks to be him.

The miner made the same choice by undocking in his ship. And no, mining pre-buff was not tank or die. It was tank or a dozen other options (I know it's at least that many because I personally listed over a score of options).

Quote:
A Miner has more risk than Gankers or jet canners still.

I'll treat you to a gank/canflip guide.

Arrow Travel further abroad than a trade hub. Go at least 6 jumps away. Yes believe it or not, there are system beyond 6 jumps from a trade hub.

Arrow When entering a system Travel to each planet and Dscan. Grav Sites are easy pickings, and All sites spawn within 4au from any planet.

Arrow Scan down system if grav site is suspected.

Arrow rinse and repeat until jet canner/or gank victim is spotted.

Isn't this the kind of thing you were recommending miners pre patch?. Sucks to be you, crying, because you have to now do what you preached.


How is that relevant to your claim that a Miner's Risk is higher than ~20m per (say 30m)? Because that's the amount a ganker risks and roughly the amount of time it takes between ganks (15m setup, 15m cooldown. NB, a lower number here increases the amount the ganker risks/hr). Show me the killmails that indicate that miners are losing their Exhumers (on average) every 5 hours.

Wikipedia wrote:
Risk is the potential that a chosen action or activity (including the choice of inaction) will lead to a loss (an undesirable outcome).
Risk=Probability*Loss

Risk and Uncertainty are not the same thing.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#83 - 2012-09-22 12:03:05 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

Wikipedia wrote:
Risk is the potential that a chosen action or activity (including the choice of inaction) will lead to a loss (an undesirable outcome).
Risk=Probability*Loss

Risk and Uncertainty are not the same thing.

I think this is where you go wrong. Risk has the "potential". in other words you may or may not lose. Ganking, you 100% lose your ship, so no . You don't risk your ship, by ganking. it's already lost once you start the gank.

Pipa Porto wrote:
A miner chooses to lose his ship (with some probability) by undocking. That's how EVE works. What's changed is that that probability has dramatically fallen because industrialize ganking is no longer possible. The mining fleet is simply to large for widescale ganking at a loss.

Risk = Loss*Probabity. The Risk (expressed in ISK) involved in losing a 20m ISK ship 100% of the time is 20m ISK. The Risk involved in losing a 200m ISK ship 10% of the time is also 20m ISK.

A miner CHOOSES to put his ship at risk by undocking. The probability of him losing that ship has dropped to near zero, therefore his risk level is near zero.

All ships undocking is a risk of losing the ship. So again the arguement is flawed there. A drake undocking is at risk of being lost but the risk is. How did you say it? " his risk level is near zero. " Same as the canflipper or ganker. What is the risk for them to undock? Yep you got it in one. The risk of losing their ship is less than the Miners. when a ganker chooses to gank. He has not risked losing his ship. he has infact sacrificed it to gain some profit. The only risk a ganker has is if the kill is successful.

Pipa Porto wrote:

How is that relevant to your claim that a Miner's Risk is higher than ~20m per (say 30m)? Because that's the amount a ganker risks and roughly the amount of time it takes between ganks (15m setup, 15m cooldown. NB, a lower number here increases the amount the ganker risks/hr). Show me the killmails that indicate that miners are losing their Exhumers (on average) every 5 hours.

The guide is very relevent to the OP's complaint of lack of Targets. I'm Telling him one way of finding said Targets. Again the Ganker risks nothing, but wether he makes a profit or not. And if he is ganking Tanked Skiffs in a Veletor, i'll have no sympathy for him.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#84 - 2012-09-22 12:09:38 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Wikipedia wrote:
Risk is the potential that a chosen action or activity (including the choice of inaction) will lead to a loss (an undesirable outcome).
Risk=Probability*Loss

Risk and Uncertainty are not the same thing.

I think this is where you go wrong. Risk has the "potential". in other words you may or may not lose. Ganking, you 100% lose your ship, so no . You don't risk your ship, by ganking. it's already lost once you start the gank.

Pipa Porto wrote:
A miner chooses to lose his ship (with some probability) by undocking. That's how EVE works. What's changed is that that probability has dramatically fallen because industrialize ganking is no longer possible. The mining fleet is simply to large for widescale ganking at a loss.

Risk = Loss*Probabity. The Risk (expressed in ISK) involved in losing a 20m ISK ship 100% of the time is 20m ISK. The Risk involved in losing a 200m ISK ship 10% of the time is also 20m ISK.

A miner CHOOSES to put his ship at risk by undocking. The probability of him losing that ship has dropped to near zero, therefore his risk level is near zero.

All ships undocking is a risk of losing the ship. So again the arguement is flawed there. A drake undocking is at risk of being lost but the risk is. How did you say it? " his risk level is near zero. " Same as the canflipper or ganker. What is the risk for them to undock? Yep you got it in one. The risk of losing their ship is less than the Miners. when a ganker chooses to gank. He has not risked losing his ship. he has infact sacrificed it to gain some profit. The only risk a ganker has is if the kill is successful.

Pipa Porto wrote:

How is that relevant to your claim that a Miner's Risk is higher than ~20m per (say 30m)? Because that's the amount a ganker risks and roughly the amount of time it takes between ganks (15m setup, 15m cooldown. NB, a lower number here increases the amount the ganker risks/hr). Show me the killmails that indicate that miners are losing their Exhumers (on average) every 5 hours.

The guide is very relevent to the OP's complaint of lack of Targets. I'm Telling him one way of finding said Targets. Again the Ganker risks nothing, but wether he makes a profit or not. And if he is ganking Tanked Skiffs in a Veletor, i'll have no sympathy for him.


6 hours playing, 0 jetcan miners.

The Tears Must Flow
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#85 - 2012-09-22 13:16:57 UTC
To op:
You mean your thinking too small... Maybe you should aim little higher them stealing candy from kid. You Could always go down to career in professional Corporate thief, get a little challenge in your eve life. Pirate Do it right and rewards should outweight your ore cans many many times over.

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#86 - 2012-09-22 13:24:10 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki's Sig wrote:
If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.


This just caught my attention and I find it to be rather hilarious that he is now the one crying.

CCP made being an "Interwebz Ganksta" in high-sec hard, deal with it.

This thread is so very full of lulz, someone who obviously buys into the HTFU mentality all of a sudden turns on the waterworks when his demographic in the game is suddenly told to HTFU.

Cry moar, HTFU or unsub and contract me all of your stuff

Interwebz Ganksta tears, best tears


Gotta love two digit iq people posts. Graetz.


Oh right, because historically intelligence is attributed to aggressive bullies, and common thieves. What?
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#87 - 2012-09-22 13:38:16 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki's Sig wrote:
If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.


This just caught my attention and I find it to be rather hilarious that he is now the one crying.

CCP made being an "Interwebz Ganksta" in high-sec hard, deal with it.

This thread is so very full of lulz, someone who obviously buys into the HTFU mentality all of a sudden turns on the waterworks when his demographic in the game is suddenly told to HTFU.

Cry moar, HTFU or unsub and contract me all of your stuff

Interwebz Ganksta tears, best tears


Gotta love two digit iq people posts. Graetz.

Is that the best you've got?

Cry moar, your tears fuel my jet-canning Hulk
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#88 - 2012-09-22 13:48:57 UTC
Dasola wrote:
To op:
You mean your thinking too small... Maybe you should aim little higher them stealing candy from kid. You Could always go down to career in professional Corporate thief, get a little challenge in your eve life. Pirate Do it right and rewards should outweight your ore cans many many times over.


It's not a matter of the value of the rewards, i already said that in all my EvE Online play time i earned aroud 450m isk, and it's more then enough for me. The problem is the removal of a game unique feature.

The Tears Must Flow
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#89 - 2012-09-22 13:50:17 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki's Sig wrote:
If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.


This just caught my attention and I find it to be rather hilarious that he is now the one crying.

CCP made being an "Interwebz Ganksta" in high-sec hard, deal with it.

This thread is so very full of lulz, someone who obviously buys into the HTFU mentality all of a sudden turns on the waterworks when his demographic in the game is suddenly told to HTFU.

Cry moar, HTFU or unsub and contract me all of your stuff

Interwebz Ganksta tears, best tears


Gotta love two digit iq people posts. Graetz.

Is that the best you've got?

Cry moar, your tears fuel my jet-canning Hulk


Tears??? lol god must love stupid people.

The Tears Must Flow
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#90 - 2012-09-22 14:00:48 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki's Sig wrote:
If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.


This just caught my attention and I find it to be rather hilarious that he is now the one crying.

CCP made being an "Interwebz Ganksta" in high-sec hard, deal with it.

This thread is so very full of lulz, someone who obviously buys into the HTFU mentality all of a sudden turns on the waterworks when his demographic in the game is suddenly told to HTFU.

Cry moar, HTFU or unsub and contract me all of your stuff

Interwebz Ganksta tears, best tears


Gotta love two digit iq people posts. Graetz.

Is that the best you've got?

Cry moar, your tears fuel my jet-canning Hulk


Tears??? lol god must love stupid people.

IDK about me, but he must really love you then......
Kinet
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-09-22 14:01:53 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
With the changes on Mining Barges, the Ore Thief career is on the brink of extinction. "Professional ore thieving" was alot of fun, it was something that made EvE unique.

Why did CCP changed this?



The rumor is that CCP decided shooting an unarmed mining barge and padding a killboard was not really what they had in mind when they include PVP in the game. You see, it is a lot like an 18 year old beating up a few 2 year olds. Sure the 18 year old can run around and tell his friends he beat up 5 people today but it would be more a reflection on the 18 year olds inadequacies rather than his fighting abilities.

On a side note, the "Douche-Bag" career is still in full effect. If you need to get your fill on screwing over your fellow player just join a corp and be nice for a month or so and then rob them blind.

Good Luck Mate, hope you soon find yourself suffering from the curse of the soft poo.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#92 - 2012-09-22 14:16:55 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki's Sig wrote:
If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.

...



Tears??? lol god must love stupid people.

IDK about me, but he must really love you then......


Go look at a mirror, you will be shocked. Then again, maybe you are so dumb that you can't even recognize your own reflection.

The Tears Must Flow
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#93 - 2012-09-22 14:46:22 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Go look at a mirror, you will be shocked. Then again, maybe you are so dumb that you can't even recognize your own reflection.


Aww, is someone butthurt because he can't find any jetcanning miners? Can't think of anything to say that is on topic and can't get your rocks off picking on jetcanners so you feel the need to inflate your own bruised ego by insulting others, how cute.

I'm sure your junior high school cronies will help you beat up some poor nerd on Monday. Just keep in mind though, that one day you will probably be working for them.

I'm jetcan mining right now, come find me....
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#94 - 2012-09-22 14:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:

Whoever made "ore theif" a career option in this game is a ******* moron...


That would be the miners who jetcanned.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#95 - 2012-09-22 14:52:38 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Go look at a mirror, you will be shocked. Then again, maybe you are so dumb that you can't even recognize your own reflection.


Aww, is someone butthurt because he can't find any jetcanning miners? Can't think of anything to say that is on topic and can't get your rocks off picking on jetcanners so you feel the need to inflate your own bruised ego by insulting others, how cute.

I'm sure your junior high school cronies will help you beat up some poor nerd on Monday. Just keep in mind though, that one day you will probably be working for them.

I'm jetcan mining right now, come find me....


Cool story, where did you copy&paste it from?

The Tears Must Flow
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#96 - 2012-09-22 15:00:45 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Go look at a mirror, you will be shocked. Then again, maybe you are so dumb that you can't even recognize your own reflection.


Aww, is someone butthurt because he can't find any jetcanning miners? Can't think of anything to say that is on topic and can't get your rocks off picking on jetcanners so you feel the need to inflate your own bruised ego by insulting others, how cute.

I'm sure your junior high school cronies will help you beat up some poor nerd on Monday. Just keep in mind though, that one day you will probably be working for them.

I'm jetcan mining right now, come find me....


Cool story, where did you copy&paste it from?


Wow, you can't even think of an appropriate comeback.

I win, lol

Done with this thread now, all you're going to do is try to drag me down to your level so you can win due to experience....

kthxbai
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#97 - 2012-09-22 15:13:02 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Alaekessa wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Go look at a mirror, you will be shocked. Then again, maybe you are so dumb that you can't even recognize your own reflection.


Aww, is someone butthurt because he can't find any jetcanning miners? Can't think of anything to say that is on topic and can't get your rocks off picking on jetcanners so you feel the need to inflate your own bruised ego by insulting others, how cute.

I'm sure your junior high school cronies will help you beat up some poor nerd on Monday. Just keep in mind though, that one day you will probably be working for them.

I'm jetcan mining right now, come find me....


Cool story, where did you copy&paste it from?


Wow, you can't even think of an appropriate comeback.

I win, lol

Done with this thread now, all you're going to do is try to drag me down to your level so you can win due to experience....

kthxbai


GR

The Tears Must Flow
TharOkha
0asis Group
#98 - 2012-09-22 15:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Vaju Enki wrote:
The problem is the removal of a game unique feature.


As far as i know, they didnt removed jetcan mining. They just increased cargo for mining barges.


"EvE is Hard, deal with it.EvE "

Interesting words from a person baawing that he cannot find any jetcan miners.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#99 - 2012-09-22 15:19:00 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
The problem is the removal of a game unique feature.


As far as i know, they didnt nerfed jet canning. they just increased cargo for mining barges.


"EvE is Hard, deal with it.EvE "

Interesting words from a person baawing that he cannot find any jetcan miners.



Why would anyone jetcan mine when you have a ore cargo hold bigger then a hauler?

You don't see any problem with this approach? Mining haulers... Maybe if CCP removed 99,9% of the asteroids belts in the game and made you search/travel for 7 hour to mine some ore you would understand the problem.

The Tears Must Flow
TharOkha
0asis Group
#100 - 2012-09-22 15:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Vaju Enki wrote:

You don't see any problem with this approach? Mining haulers... Maybe if CCP removed 99,9% of the asteroids belts in the game and made you search/travel for 7 hour to mine some ore you would understand the problem.



I understand your problem perfectly. You are crying that they destroyed your "proffesion". Im just saying, that eve has plenty of other activities, than stealing stuff from noobs and miners. You know "Eve is hard place", adapt or survive.If you cannot find any other interesting activities in eve maybe its time for you to consider quit eve and switch to another, easier game... like WoW for example.

Btw you can still steal ore from miners. Take your mining barge and mine the asteroid they mine, before they do it.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell