Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I AM accounting for that. HML's can't do everything as well as turrets can do but it does other things better..

Surely you're not saying the HAVE to be better at everything?

And a perfect cane pilot vs a perfect drake pilot orbiting each other at 60? I really don't need to go on Sisi to know that the drake would easily win hands down...

Okay can we stop with the delayed crap, cause that's a weak ass argument for not nerfing them. Sure missiles take some time to get there, but there next volley is there in cycle time, again and again. All the way up to 110km of the Cerb and Tengu(249 of a cruise raven). A range I guess I again need to say, WILL BE THE SAME AFTER THE CHANGE(actually more but whatever, you're clearly not reading that fact anyway. It was said by Fozzie in one of his post but ignore it anyway). If you choose to add a TC or TE to your set up.

What is it about that people aren't getting. The range is being moved from a god given gift to an option in exchange for.... Blank.(Tank or DPS in Caldari ships.)

Its like people read range reduced and miss the entire piece were the dev pointed out the mod that not only returned it, but actually INCREASE it.

I guess you can't stop the emo in some people.

Range isn't nerfed, its an option.
Dps is nerfed, but it needed it.

What they actually did, was make missile ships have to make a choice like armor ships. Armor ships are slow as **** and have to pick a tank/dps option.

Caldari ships are also slow(bad example damn Caldari), and have to pick between dps and range or Tank and Range. So instead of getting all three, you have to pick, only you get to pick which two out of three you get.

I assume that when heavy missiles become effected by tracking enhancers, it'll be something like +velocity -explosion radius. On the bright side, split weapon system ships that fit TE's will gain benefit on both of their weapon systems.

Why not go through with the missile nerf and then make them affected by all damage mods? Heat sinks, gyrostabs, tracking enhancers, etc., which would keep them viable as a secondary weapon, but also hurt the ships that use them primarily?

^^^ Not a serious suggestion, but fact is, missiles are too poor on most ships and too good on a few. There's more than one way to slug a bug, and I'm personally more in favor of stripping the damage bonus off of the offending Caldari ships and giving them another non-damage bonus, because missiles aren't a (good)broken weapon system on other ships. The damage nerf to the missiles themselves will probably cause more problems than it solves.

If rail Proteus cant do 400 DPS at 65km, why the Drake should?
If rail Proteus cant do 750 DPS at 100Km, like Machariel, why the Tengu should?

And that is why I don't really like the change where TC/TE should affect missile as a hold: it gives yet another reason to nerf all other missile class.

And on a common sense side, why should those be affecting range at all? If anything that these mods should affect it should be things like explosion velocity or explosion radius. Range, by every account, should always and only should be affect by the amount of fuel it carries, fuel consumption rate and amount of thrust to weight radio of its rocket engines, You can think up some way to make the burn more efficient but skills and ship bonus already cover that. In fact we have a saying in rocket science: Its all about delta V.

The whole point of all of this is to make missile platforms and turret platforms on par with each other, which you apparently missed, hence why no one really cares (including CCP) if you or anyone else dislikes the TE/TD change.

Fleet Command ships shouldn't even be considered, their role is to boost the fleet and have huge tank, dps is the least of their concern.

Infact I would exchange the weapon bonus for even more tank.

Those HML changes are all welcomed.
Please consider taking a look at HAM.

Also, the changes to Rage missiles seems nice, but I wonder if it's sufficient for people to switch from arbalest bombers to T2.

Much as I think hmls do need nerfed i do think this nerf is going the wrong way. Missiles SHOULD be long range. I have no problem with heavy missiles being the longest ranged medium weapon. Missiles SHOULD have high alpha, even highest, they are a great big warhead after all. A missile ship using long range missiles should be able to whack out a big volley of damage at long range, with the balancing factor being that you can gtfo before they get there (or use defenders if they weren't broken, or a smartbomb if you happen to have one). It is the dps that is out of kilter. HMLs should get a rof nerf to tone the dps down, probably doesn't even need to be as much as 20%.. All missile bonuses should be rof bonuses, and to that sized launchers in general (no more kin only bonuses, no more hml or ham only bonuses). Hams (and rockets/torps) are more basic missiles that don't carry as much fuel or as fancy guidance systems so they have a far higher rof and this is how they do more damage. GMP difference seems dumb to me and an unnecessary nerf to short range missiles since all missiles are really guided anyway.

A rof rather than damage nerf has added benefits in server performance too

I bet a 15% rof nerf to hmls (maybe changed to 10% or 20% after testing) coupled with the missile velocity increases and more general bonuses on hulls would be a win win situation tbh. Bear in mind that increased velocity and nerfed rof means many less wasted volleys as well.

Same goes for the tracking disruptor thing, make it 2 different mods with the same sort of effects and you would get rid of most of the issues. Guidance scrambler, guidance computer, guidance enhancer, guidance link. Launcher skills instead of gunnery for the buffing ones (though weapon upgrades is a special case that effects both anyway). Guidance scrambler uses weapon disruption but gets a new buffing skill instead of turret destabilization (launcher destabilisation?). Tracking disruptor bonus become weapon disruption bonus and are applied to both. 1 ship still can't fit one mod to own all, amarr ewar is no longer useless against missiles spammers, missile users can buff thier missiles.

one thing i could not see till now (I know, hard to believe after 128 pages ):
TC will affect missles, but need a gunnery skill (TA) to operate.
So, is this going to be changed like it is possible to use TCs with GMP too instead of TA only or will we HAVE to skill a "useless" gunnery skill on a missle toon?
Or should i say make it like that all those gunnery folks need to skill GMP to use their TC again?

*edit*
one more thing
CCP seems to like to change DMG bonuses to RoF bonuses, which on paper looks like nothing changes, but:
Is this not a stealth ISK sink like "buff"?
like, if i need x% more volleys to kill stuff i seems to me that all missle generated income is nerved?


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