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[Winter] Support Frigates

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Kesthely
State War Academy
Caldari State
#421 - 2012-09-20 14:36:36 UTC
The inquisitor looks like a beast, 3 permarepping small armor, ab, eccm, 400 plate, dcu II eanm II anm II 1970+ real armor hp, nearly 6 k buffer with resistances above 55% and yet haveing used them on the testserver, i'm not convinced the'll pose a problem in the majority of situations. Why? because in most situations the targets you rep will be able to volley the buffers

The repping power and range of these frigates is to few and to short to have a major impact on cruiser sized and higher ships, and they certainly can't out rep assault frigate or destroyer dps They will however be able to rep up the damage of a few drones. Or possibly keep the tacklers alive long enough for them to survive there tackling

Fun little ships
Siigari Kitawa
New Eden Archery Club
#422 - 2012-09-20 16:50:20 UTC
Serious suggestion: Give the Navitas a 20m3 drone bay and bandwidth with a 10% per level repair bonus for repair drones.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
Reeves CZ
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#423 - 2012-09-21 21:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Reeves CZ
give them faster cap recharge rate .With my cap and remote rep skills at 5 is very hard for me to fit that logi (im only test navi and burst) cap stable (tried cap boosted fit too) with all 3 reps running (with prop mod off) and some reasonable tank.My fitting skills is at 5 too.
Doddy
Excidium.
#424 - 2012-09-21 21:24:03 UTC
Reeves CZ wrote:
give them faster cap recharge rate .With my cap and remote rep skills at 5 is very hard for me to fit that logi (im only test navi and burst) cap stable (tried cap boosted fit too) with all 3 reps running (with prop mod off) and some reasonable tank.My fitting skills is at 5 too.


You sure about that? I get them both cap stable even running ab ....
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#425 - 2012-09-22 07:14:44 UTC
So I was thinking. All the other Stealth Bombers are built off Combat hulls.

Should you not then swap the Inquisitor and Tormentor so the Inquisitor is the Combat Ship and has the Purifier as the T2 version and the Tormentor (which was also a mining frigate like the rest of the ships you're turning into support ships) is the Support ship.

More nit-picky than important really. Could be important if you decide to make T2 Logi Frigates though (which you should.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#426 - 2012-09-22 16:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Until T2 "Support" frigs can fit and power 3-5 medium RR, I am not interested. After all, T2 cruisers can fit and power 4-5 large RR. Let's have some tierification going here.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Reeves CZ
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#427 - 2012-09-23 21:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Reeves CZ
Doddy wrote:
Reeves CZ wrote:
give them faster cap recharge rate .With my cap and remote rep skills at 5 is very hard for me to fit that logi (im only test navi and burst) cap stable (tried cap boosted fit too) with all 3 reps running (with prop mod off) and some reasonable tank.My fitting skills is at 5 too.


You sure about that? I get them both cap stable even running ab ....
i try fit mwd....sry didnt mention it.
Lili Lu
#428 - 2012-09-23 22:11:35 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
So I was thinking. All the other Stealth Bombers are built off Combat hulls.

Should you not then swap the Inquisitor and Tormentor so the Inquisitor is the Combat Ship and has the Purifier as the T2 version and the Tormentor (which was also a mining frigate like the rest of the ships you're turning into support ships) is the Support ship.

More nit-picky than important really. Could be important if you decide to make T2 Logi Frigates though (which you should.

Oh no! No! Don't awaken him! Noooooooooooo P

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1932514#post1932514
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#429 - 2012-09-23 22:33:12 UTC
JonnyRandom wrote:
I'm not in favour of this change.

While a support frigate does open new options for frigate fleets I think it is counter-intuitive to the nature of frigate fleets.
They are not long slug-fests. They are fast, deadly, and often end in the blink of an eye.

If support frigates are inevitable I would say it would be more fitting to provide offensive bonuses rather than defensive. Tracking links, etc.



I find myself agreeing with this.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Lili Lu
#430 - 2012-09-23 23:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
The problem Zyella is that if they become this way, slinging range and strength bonused remote sensor boosts, remote eccm, tracking links (and now for missiles Smile), they would just see use as throwaway alt ships for gate or station camping.

Think of poor Jita. The absolute cloud of ships on the 4-4 undock would break the servers and cause all our computers to start smoking.P

edit - or any gate near any alternate market hub . . because yes the idea of Jita breaking has appeal.Big smile
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#431 - 2012-09-24 12:54:18 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
So I was thinking. All the other Stealth Bombers are built off Combat hulls.

Should you not then swap the Inquisitor and Tormentor so the Inquisitor is the Combat Ship and has the Purifier as the T2 version and the Tormentor (which was also a mining frigate like the rest of the ships you're turning into support ships) is the Support ship.

More nit-picky than important really. Could be important if you decide to make T2 Logi Frigates though (which you should.

Oh no! No! Don't awaken him! Noooooooooooo P

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1932514#post1932514

I will only agree to accept that story as existing if all references to duvolle are replaced with Roden.

Of course while we're at it, the Enyo should be a Duvolle ship since it's a hybrid platform.


Other than a manufacturer snafu that has loong been ignored. I have no problem with it.

I still submit that the amarr frigates in question should be swapped both due to the model similarities and due to the stealth bomber requiring the Inquisitor to build. (if the model were changed to have similarities to the Tormentor, and that ship were made an ingredient in the Purifier instead of the Inquisitor, I would also be satisfied, but I imagine the just swapping the Tormentor and Inquisitor roles would be much easier.).


I take no issue at all with a drone platform becoming a missile platform as I imagine the hulls are extensively gutted and reworked.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#432 - 2012-09-24 13:04:34 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
JonnyRandom wrote:
I'm not in favour of this change.

While a support frigate does open new options for frigate fleets I think it is counter-intuitive to the nature of frigate fleets.
They are not long slug-fests. They are fast, deadly, and often end in the blink of an eye.

If support frigates are inevitable I would say it would be more fitting to provide offensive bonuses rather than defensive. Tracking links, etc.



I find myself agreeing with this.

I am in partial agreement. I do agree that frigate engagements are quick and violent, but I don't think we should rule out slugfests. I am all for expanding the possibilities of frigate wolfpacks.

In a similar vein to how they are making the EWar ships so half are offensive support and the other half are defensive support, I think they should do the same with the Support ships. They should mirror Logistics ships with lesser strengths, so the Inquisitor (which should, in fact, be the Tormentor) and the Bantam (along with the Augoror and Osprey) should have repair and energy transfer bonuses while the Navitas and Burst (along with the Exequror and Scythe) should have repair and tracking link bonuses. So the Amarr and Caldari support and logistics ships form a cap chain to gain staying power in larger groups, while the Gallente and Minmatar ships are able to operate singularly and can boost the offensive power of a small group.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#433 - 2012-10-01 13:00:06 UTC
Hey everyone. I want to give a special thanks to everyone who came onto Duality to help us test these and other frigates. We'll be getting the testing open again as soon as possible for more feedback.

In the meantime we have a set of tweaks ready for these ships based on the experience testing them. To help them respond faster when repping low-ehp ships we're increasing their scan res significantly to just a bit below the attack frigs.
For the same reason we are also proposing that the small rep cycle time be cut in half. Rep amount and cap use are also cut by the same amount so rep/s stays the same but pilots can respond faster to changes in the battlefield.

Let us know what you think!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#434 - 2012-10-01 13:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
CCP Fozzie wrote:

For the same reason we are also proposing that the small rep cycle time be cut in half. Rep amount and cap use are also cut by the same amount so rep/s stays the same but pilots can respond faster to changes in the battlefield.


Good idea, sounds like a way to make small logistics require epic reaction time and steel nerves, as repping should be :P


barely related:

next in the "nerf and buff two related things to change something else", increasing cruise missiles velocity 300% and decreasing their flight time by a factor of 3

...I WISH

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#435 - 2012-10-01 13:05:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I want to give a special thanks to everyone who came onto Duality to help us test these and other frigates. We'll be getting the testing open again as soon as possible for more feedback.

In the meantime we have a set of tweaks ready for these ships based on the experience testing them. To help them respond faster when repping low-ehp ships we're increasing their scan res significantly to just a bit below the attack frigs.
For the same reason we are also proposing that the small rep cycle time be cut in half. Rep amount and cap use are also cut by the same amount so rep/s stays the same but pilots can respond faster to changes in the battlefield.

Let us know what you think!


Sounds good. But does that also affect the local reppairers or is it only remote reppairers?

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#436 - 2012-10-01 13:16:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I want to give a special thanks to everyone who came onto Duality to help us test these and other frigates. We'll be getting the testing open again as soon as possible for more feedback.

In the meantime we have a set of tweaks ready for these ships based on the experience testing them. To help them respond faster when repping low-ehp ships we're increasing their scan res significantly to just a bit below the attack frigs.
For the same reason we are also proposing that the small rep cycle time be cut in half. Rep amount and cap use are also cut by the same amount so rep/s stays the same but pilots can respond faster to changes in the battlefield.

Let us know what you think!


so the ships get the bonus to cut cycle time? or the better option of changing the modules themselves?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#437 - 2012-10-01 13:19:39 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Sounds good. But does that also affect the local reppairers or is it only remote reppairers?

Just remote.

Harvey James wrote:
so the ships get the bonus to cut cycle time? or the better option of changing the modules themselves?

Modules. I've updated the OP but unfortunately the lack of tables makes the module specs a bit hard to read.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#438 - 2012-10-01 13:22:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Sounds good. But does that also affect the local reppairers or is it only remote reppairers?

Just remote.

Harvey James wrote:
so the ships get the bonus to cut cycle time? or the better option of changing the modules themselves?

Modules. I've updated the OP but unfortunately the lack of tables makes the module specs a bit hard to read.


well its certainly confusing me now typos perhaps?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Khaim Khal
Perkone
Caldari State
#439 - 2012-10-01 14:07:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Modules. I've updated the OP but unfortunately the lack of tables makes the module specs a bit hard to read.


It might be easier to read if you linked to an image (or spreadsheet - GoogleDocs comes to mind).
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#440 - 2012-10-01 14:09:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I want to give a special thanks to everyone who came onto Duality to help us test these and other frigates. We'll be getting the testing open again as soon as possible for more feedback.

In the meantime we have a set of tweaks ready for these ships based on the experience testing them. To help them respond faster when repping low-ehp ships we're increasing their scan res significantly to just a bit below the attack frigs.
For the same reason we are also proposing that the small rep cycle time be cut in half. Rep amount and cap use are also cut by the same amount so rep/s stays the same but pilots can respond faster to changes in the battlefield.

Let us know what you think!


I think that's a brilliant resolution.

My main concern would become the sensor res becoming used for tackling rather than logistics. :)

Where I am.