Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Naah, was when probing was changed from being a semi random long duration thing to being near instant

No u. Maybe now that you can't persist with a sob storyline of CCP is not reading this thread you'll stop your useless quoting followed by your one or two line whine 9000 on the same issue. Also, Fozzie has already told you these issues are not up for a vote and repaeating the same flawed arguments gains you nothing.


Probably slim and none. Maybe you could really focus on what it means for missiles. It means now you could extend range without using a rig. Or, you may want a TC or TE now because just like a turret user you could well face someone fubarring your weapon. The numbers on these are what is going to matter. Forget viewing it as a nerf, it could if done wrong end up as a huge buff for missiles. I'm trusting that the balancing team and Fozzie are not going to derp and do either a bad nerf or buff. And if they do I have hope they won't wait 4 years to fix it.


You obviously are unaware of who Fozzie is. Here's a clue watch the last few years of the alliance tournament. Anyway, if eve-kill weren't offline I'd pull you up. I'm guessing I'd get a "chron job".

Edit- just looked at your age and corp history. I think now I could be wrong in that guess. Which brings up another conundrum, that is how you could have years into the game and possibly a decent pvp history but still be such a bad poster. Regardless someone has already told you why your "size of engagement" argument is sorta funny. But yes, they aren't just viewing the changes through the prism of 0.0 blob fests.


What is sad is that you may actually beleive what you wrote. Drake fleets were quite established by 2010. They and Tengus were running all the pve content.

And with that can you guys complaining about the proposals stop re-posting the same flawed posts over and over and maybe post something new. We're on page what, 123, already and we haven't even seen any numbers yet on the mods. Seriously before going to post, please read back through the previous 122 pages. Damage numbers and comparisons are already in the thread. Much has already been posted. Posting the same stuff like mashing an f button only makes Fozzie's job slower.

We can discuss whether there should be two mods that are weapon disrupters, or whether new scripts should handle the alteration. And turret users are right there with missile users on concerns about the base strength of unbonused TDs. Have been, but missile users didn't care about them (unless they were using them to defang a turret ship) til now that they will be affecting missiles.

This stuff is happening folks, finally, for those of us that have been shouting for years that the Emperor has too many clothes. And, it is not just this. Ships are being altered directly. It will take time to get to ships like the Nighthawk. But at least the glaring problem is getting an interim fix. Noone should be crying for the Drake and Tengu. They've had a very long, too long, run at overuse because they were better. Read Fozzie's explanation as to why the weapon system is getting this treatment before the BCs are.

Things will be OK, in fact better than it has been, because we won't be stuck with a stale game with obvious easy choices.

Why the FRAK do you even acknowledge this? Fu@k Goons, im tired of them getting mentioned all the time. Stop pandering to silly fears, you are just building them up by mentioning them.

Who the fu@k are Goons anyway? Been around 9 years and this is the first year I hear so much talk about them.

Are they like Hobbits? What do they do?
Excuse my ignorance, been focusing quite a bit on RL drama the past 9 years...

Clearly you don't read the past 120+ pages nor Fozzie's post. The problem is not the nerf itself, but the details of the nerf, the extent of the nerf and what are the consequences and what Fozzie's and other dev's might have missed or may have forgotten to put them into consideration.

For instance, while I agree with the nerf in general, I'm almost against the damage nerf, at least with the 20%, for several reasons I've posted before. So you see, people do and will want to share what their opinions are. Devs are human too you know. Hence no matter how "dumb" people's posts are, the concerns are valid, and devs, regardless of what their intention, are responsible and required to read the posts. Even Fozzie himself clearly stated that the details of the nerf are open to changes.

Perhaps you could look at instead of Meta 1-4 plates being successively "Better" have them named after the T2 manufacturing and have them adopt a racial flair?

EG the Minmatar one: Fernite composite gives a modest boost to armor HP but has very light weight to it, and has more CPU used but a much lighter usage of PG for more of a "Nano" feel to it.

Gallente one: Crystalline carbonate gives a solid boost to armor along with a % given to increase amount of armor repaired

Caldari one: Titanium carbide, perportionally smaller HP gain, has "Stealthy" applications and gives a tiny decrease in sig radius

Amarr one: Rolled Tungstun, Most HP gained, low on CPU, high on powergrid, most mass, tiny bonus to armor resist Etc.

Just throwing it out there, I think there is a nice opporunity to make armor tanks far more varied.

It seems you are somewhat new to the game. You apparently looked at things rationally and saw you would have to train a whole gunnery tree a longer time to get to tech II weapons or a shorter time with heavy missile spec. Changing the skill tree is something I can't beleive they would want to tackle tbh. What a mess it will be for ship command skills. I wouldn't think they want to add weapon skills to the workload any time soon.

But most people do not make this calculation. It does not account for the majority of Drake proliferation. Drake proliferation comes from word of mouth about how easy pve can be with a Drake -> Tengu path, and it could be all you need for pvp. It also comes from a natural human risk averse response and wanting an op tank.

As for the damage, it has been pointed out many times that while nothing great compared to theoretical other BC or BS "paper" damage it is still way more than any other long range medium weapon can get at anything beyond about10-20km. And it of course outdamages the short range turret weapons beyond 20-30km because that is about the extent of those weapon's range. Range is important for various reasons, tackle, probing, tanking and speed mechanics.

As for continual tweeking, yeah I sure hope so. It has been somewhat lacking over the years. That's how we got the current Drake and Tengu problem in the first palce. But this is a new team that has been dedicated specifically to this process. That is something new for CCP, or at least to my knowledge of CCP.

You bemoan the possible fate of hangared Drakes. But why do you not bemoan the present fact of so many ship colleagues to the Drake that are as we speak hangared because of the strength of the Drake? Buffs alone are not how a game gets balanced. Some things have to be clipped back, others allowed to grow. The Drake is taking over the place. It's first trim is coming from a shearing on HMLs which stat wise are too good (despite all the argumentation against that fact). People do not choose heavy missiles in such numbers because they like the concept. They choose them because they perform better than the alternatives. Soon they won't, but that is not to say that they will underperform.

No disagreement that numbers (as they become more clear and can get tested on the test server) are worth discussing. What isn't worth seeing in this thread is constant re-posting of some guys post from page xx that you happen to agree with. Fozzie has already shown he's reading. He shouldn't have to wade through constant re-postings as if somehow quantity of posting will outweigh quality of posting.

HMLs could use a trim but my current opinion is that you need to be careful about trimming them to the point that they're not useful without a ship's damage bonus - remember, many ships rely on missiles as supplementary damage, and at this point they're almost not worth fitting in utility slots anyway.

I'm more inclined toward clipping range a bit and stripping a launcher off the Drake and Tengu, or changing their bonus, than neutering missile damage itself.

Being new or old to matters not. From a new perspective, yes, I can get into tech II's quicker, but the support skills for said tech II take longer.

Flying a Domi with Sentries is a much more effective way to run lvl 4's, even with Shield tanking being more effective than armor tanking in missions. Watching a drake blob versus a zealot blob and knowing had it not been for sheer numbers, the drake blob would've lost....they achieved their objective, but were in the red as far as numbers were concerned.

The first post said "an enyo can reach 450" and the repsonse to all that was "If enyos did 450 dps at 80k or hell even 10k, then there would be an issue" . . .