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Dev blog: Brains! NOM NOM!

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Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#441 - 2012-09-21 17:44:30 UTC
I don't do any missions so these changes will not affect me at all but I do agree with some of the people here. Why is CCP working on items that nobody is complaining about, or cares about, when there are multiple, multiple issues out there that are very broken?

Fix the obvious broken issues first before trying to improve something that is low priority.
Martin0
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#442 - 2012-09-21 18:02:01 UTC
To all the people worried of theyr drones.
I did ratted in whormoles with a myrmidon and the sleepers never engaged my drones.
Sleepers hate e-war (of any kind) more than drones, just fit a web or a target painter and your drones will be (almost) safe.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#443 - 2012-09-21 18:02:17 UTC
Mabrjjcj Rojo wrote:
The first 5 pages were interesting, but sorry for not reading all of them.
I've seen you're changing sleeper activity, it seems in the context of Incursions. Would you address your impacts to the sleepers in worm-hole space?



We are NOT changing sleepers at all with this change. We are applying the newer AI, with some changes, to other NPC.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#444 - 2012-09-21 18:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Spc One wrote:
Carcopino wrote:

How about you go and add more missions, improve existing ones, add more epic arcs, plex sites, give some function to dead npc factions/corporations or whatever ?.
Now THAT would be worth writing home about.
Hell, even getting rid of npcs getting stuck on various clutter or bumping away at supersonic speed would do a whole lot more good.

I agree.


Then you support this change, because FoxFour has said that they're swapping in an AI that is not only better, but customizable. That should be the first priority before building a whole bunch of content. Otherwise, you're just building it on the old system, and you have that much more work and that much more rebalancing to do when you upgrade.

Also, frankly, they should make fixing the existing PVE at least as high a priority as adding new content, because some of them (the COSMOS missions in particular) are badly broken, and they're both highly useful (for standings boosts) and an introduction to the underlying lore--especially the epic arcs.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Psycros
Evasive Finance
#445 - 2012-09-21 19:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Psycros
Despana wrote:
I can't believe so many people actually HAPPY about this changes....

How about you will turn on your brains before you post something in here and make CCP think they are on the right path?


Let me tell you why I will quit this game if this changes will go live:

I play eve since 2004 and I am not a big fan of gangs, fleets etc.
Because this game is sandbox, it gives us free choice what to do. My choice is SOLO, period, and here's why it will kill 95% of my fun:

I do fly Assaults and other small ships ships in null / low sec. to catch belt, anomaly, mission hunters on small ships and then kill them when they don't pay enough attention to local and d-scan. Now, killing drakes, ravens, dominixes and other hunter will be impossible on small ships, because I won't have enough time to kill them before NPC's will trim me off.

Covert OP bombers? Forget about it. We barely could orbit tank ships without NPC's attacking us, now - no chance at all.

Basically, killing people while they are doing their hunting will be impossible on small and even medium ships.


By any means, killing solo pvp will NOT make people happy.



LOL! "Solo PvP", i.e. ganking people without PvP fits. Your tears are truly delicious. Yes, please quit and take as many of your fellow cowards along with you as possible Lol
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#446 - 2012-09-21 19:08:44 UTC
Psycros wrote:
Your tears are truly delicious.

Whoa. What an absolutely original thing to post. I am in shock and awe, I've never seen this before, ever.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Rengerel en Distel
#447 - 2012-09-21 19:51:18 UTC
Are we not getting the CONCORD fix on duality today then? This weekend at all? It would be nice to test the changes in high sec as well.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Care Bear King
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#448 - 2012-09-21 19:51:54 UTC
Drones:

1. Watch the NPC aggro; Drone boats are worthless in WH space and most will assume they will be worthless for missioning after this change until shown otherwise.

2. Fix the 'lose drones on disconnect' issue by having them follow your ship into warp (please).

3. Useful Drone AI would be nice, but I realize that is asking too much.

Level 1 AI:

1. Please realize that this will have very little impact on solo missioners running high sec missions. The impact is going to be on content that involves groups (L5? exploration content?). It's mostly just going to be an annoyance to Domi and Hulk pilots.

2. Thank you for the nerf to can flippers, ninja salvagers, etc. It was a long time coming.

3. Thank you for this step toward making low sec missions more viable. You're still not quite there, however.

PODS:

Go ahead with AI podding please - just restrict it to L4+. If my memory is correct, pilots don't need to worry about scrams until L3. Podding could be a similar step up at L4. Perhaps at L5 you're subject to podding, scrams on your pod, etc. Throw out a pop-up the first time someone accepts a L3 mission (you may be scrammed), L4 mission (you may be podded), etc. and people won't throw a fit. Anyone who is going to rage quit over losing a clone on a level 4 mission was already going to rage quite over losing their mission running ship anyway.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#449 - 2012-09-21 20:19:25 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:

As for the drone hate: This is something we are keeping a very close eye on and have already tweaked several times. We are working hard to find the right balance between just killing all drones and drone pilots having to pay attention.


Please take this into account.

There are some missions where warp scrambling frigates put up to 4+ warp disruptions and a pair of webs.
Those warp scrambling frigates are also a lot more resilient than regular frigates so it can take half a minute to kill each.
In the mean time you could be under sentry / NOS focus as well.

If you make the AI kill the drones before the drones killed most of them, then it'll be impossible to kill all those though frigates and thus there'll be either a stalemate or a ship loss.

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Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2012-09-21 20:35:56 UTC
Care Bear King wrote:
PODS:

Go ahead with AI podding please - just restrict it to L4+. If my memory is correct, pilots don't need to worry about scrams until L3. Podding could be a similar step up at L4. Perhaps at L5 you're subject to podding, scrams on your pod, etc. Throw out a pop-up the first time someone accepts a L3 mission (you may be scrammed), L4 mission (you may be podded), etc. and people won't throw a fit. Anyone who is going to rage quit over losing a clone on a level 4 mission was already going to rage quite over losing their mission running ship anyway.


I disagree. 0.0 is the most 'dangerous space' in EVE right? Give rats in 0.0 the ability to pod. Why? Better loot, better missions, better plexes, better minerals, better everything so why not make it truly 'dangerous'? One advantage of having rats pod players is saying bye-bye to bots farms. If the residents of 0.0 want to live safely have them hunt down npcs besides hunting down other players.

While you are at it have the rats in 0.4 to 0.1 be progressively more able to pod pilots. For example in 0.4 have them be able to pod anyone that does not warp out within a couple of minutes or so....

Imagine the new EVE trailer - Bla, bla, bla, blow up other players doing pvp. Bla, bla, bla, trust no one because they will cheate, scam, backstab, etc, you. Bla, bla, bla, be what you want to be in the universe of EVE. Bla, bla, bla, EVE, now even more dangerous that before; be wary, be watchful, be prepared, the npcs WILL get you if the players wont.

lol.
Launch Probe
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#451 - 2012-09-21 20:40:27 UTC
I personaly think npcs sleepers included, should not target drones. The idea of a room full of ships primarying drones has always been lol (this has been exploited and ive saved my ship many times). You will never see it hapen in player vs player. Why then have a mass force of bs, bcs and frig npcs all primary a single drone?? Congrats you killed my t1/t2 drone, and our fleet has just destroyed your npc battleship haha.
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
#452 - 2012-09-21 21:20:09 UTC
Dalilus wrote:
I disagree. 0.0 is the most 'dangerous space' in EVE right? Give rats in 0.0 the ability to pod. Why? Better loot, better missions, better plexes, better minerals, better everything so why not make it truly 'dangerous'?


Wow, people exist who think null is better than high/low? Where on earth did you get that idea?

Quote:
One advantage of having rats pod players is saying bye-bye to bots farms.


Having rats pod players would not in any way accomplish that. Players would only be podded if their ships died, whereas bot ships are set up not to die, and if they did not warp their pod out instantly after dying, which is something bots are extremely good at.
Naara Elein
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#453 - 2012-09-21 22:03:26 UTC
Smarter NPC's. Thats dripping with awesome sauce! That should inject some more fun into the PvE side.

Just out of curiosity. Have you guys at CCP considered improving the PvE side any further?
Since PvE runs so heavily on triggers they becomes almost a little too easy once those are known. I am pretty sure there are interesting things that could be done to inject a little bit of healthy unpredictability without risking to completely overwhelm a player. A PvE site is a creature too, kinda, so it could also have an AI to allow it to spawn defenses.
Neville Smit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2012-09-21 23:12:21 UTC
As a committed L4 mission-runner, I like these changes. This will make missions a lot more interesting. Nev approves.

I am an unapologetic fan of EVE Online. My blog: http://nevillesmit.com/ - My Twitter: https://twitter.com/NevilleSmit
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#455 - 2012-09-21 23:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Adigard
I must be in the minority here... but I don't see a single change anywhere here that will affect solo L4 high-sec bears. Other than having to micro-manage an already horrible Drone AI system even more. Oh wait... fewer ninja salvagers in frigates as the webbing / scramming elite frigate will go after them first. Bonus!

So, stealth ninja salvager nerf. That's a bonus for the bears I guess? Too bad for all the ninja salvager's, but you guys have been kicking them around a lot so they've probably all quit / moved on already.

Since most everyone just solo grinds L4's in Tengu's and Drake's and Raven's this change... err? Only impacts how much attention they have to pay when they use their light drones to pick off the scramming frigs (good thing that doesn't touch Tengu's). That doesn't really sound like engaging game-play.

AFK - Domi pilots will simply use their existing RR in the highs to auto-repair their sentries... so it's not an AFK L4 Domi nerf.

I guess you're really trying to demolish the Rattlesnake / Ishtar AFK L4 pilots? As has been pointed out innumerous times earlier in this thread, Drone AI is horribad. Why not try to fix the already broken stuff you're making worse before you break new stuff?

Heavy drones were pretty much worthless PRIOR to this 'fix', is this the official nail in the coffin of that type of game-play?


Doing this ALONG-SIDE the power of two promotion is also delicious irony... for reals.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#456 - 2012-09-22 01:50:13 UTC
This is just a slap in the face for drone users. Anyone that doesnt rely on their drones for DPS isnt gonna notice this change at all. Seriously this has 0 impact on someone not using drones...
Womyn Power
Broski Bad End
#457 - 2012-09-22 02:15:15 UTC
I'm hoping someone's already asked this, but what does this mean for nullsec/lowsec pirates who enters a site to kill a ratting ship solo? Or even ninja salvagers? It seems like this completely disregards pvpers who are looking for a straight fight, or atleast expecting someone to tank their frigate to tank an entire anom, and also move that ship around a region where the ratter in question can stay in the same few systems.

Seems kinda rough, from where I'm standing, but hopefully you're got a good solution for that.
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#458 - 2012-09-22 02:21:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Adigard
Womyn Power wrote:
I'm hoping someone's already asked this, but what does this mean for nullsec/lowsec pirates who enters a site to kill a ratting ship solo? Or even ninja salvagers? It seems like this completely disregards pvpers who are looking for a straight fight, or atleast expecting someone to tank their frigate to tank an entire anom, and also move that ship around a region where the ratter in question can stay in the same few systems.

Seems kinda rough, from where I'm standing, but hopefully you're got a good solution for that.


It was addressed... you won't like the amazingly vague answer that was given.

Most likely, if you're doing it in a frigate you'll be webbed / scrammed by any elite frig's and killed. If there are no elite frig's you'll still pull aggro from all the rat frigates. Good news though is it'll pull some heat / rat DPS off the bear doing the mission! So you'll either warp out having accomplished nothing, or die?

Similarly, if you're in a cruiser / recon you'll pull HAC / cruiser rat aggro... Those of course are notorious for EWAR... so again, you'll be helping the bear tank his mission. Less chance you'll die, but it'll be a lot more frustrating for the ganker / salvager.

You'll basically have to upscale to be in the same type of ship as your target, that way you'll split half the dps off the person you're trying to kill, but won't be tanking the entirety of a certain rat ship type.

Dunno, honestly it doesn't seem like a very well thought out change. I'm hoping I'm simply missing something silly, but it sounds like CCP is nerfing an entire weapon type for PvE... and they're doing it... "'cause!". A drone at 45km isn't going to survive to make it to your drone bays vs. a single webbing frigate. And if you send your drones vs. a dozen webbing frigates (quite a common occurrence in many L4's) I'd be surprised if any of your drones made it back safely. And since the average use of light drones is to pick off webbing / scramming frigates.. it's removing a hard-counter without really seeming to gain anything useful?

Ultimately I expect the long-term desired consequence is to heavily limit the number of drones that are used in PvE... you'll likely only use them vs. light web/scram frigates in close range, and save them until the rats are within 20km of your ship. That way you can auto-pull them back without running the risk of always losing one or two.

So, overall PvE dps nerf?
Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#459 - 2012-09-22 02:52:20 UTC
corestwo wrote:
So basically you're nerfing nullsec personal income again. When do you guys plan to make it compelling for a pilot to live in their space instead of farming missions on an alt? Since you've got a huge obsession with nuking alliance level income, alliances really need their pilots to want to live in their space so they can tax their activities.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#460 - 2012-09-22 04:13:50 UTC
I am entertained at all the crying over this.
Everyone always likes to claim Eve is 'harder than other MMO's'.
Welcome to Agro Mechanics 101 guys, something everyone in all those other 'Easy' MMO's has been dealing with for years.
Will it change things, sure and CCP will then have to rebalance other things going forward, but congratulations, you have gotten your wish about Eve becoming a 'harder' game. Now stop crying and enjoy your harder game. So 10/10 DED complexes no longer are LOL fests but are risky and might result in wipes? Well, prices for loot only available in them will rise to match over time, supply and demand. You now have some challenges to fight. Enjoy!