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Crime & Punishment

 
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The reality of the goon freighter ganking in Uedema and neighboring systems.

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Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#441 - 2012-09-21 14:02:18 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Andski wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Could it be done with lets say a Naga instead of a Talos for someone trained in caldari racial ship or is the talos used because it's THAT much better?


The Talos has two more low slots and a hull bonus for hybrid damage to boot.


Same dmg bonus on naga. I guess tracking bonus is better than optimal range for ganking and low slots beats meds too.


There's fewer caldari + hybrid pilots out there too... Where as all of us Gallente pilots have Hybrids trained
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#442 - 2012-09-21 15:14:55 UTC
Anosha de'Cavemann wrote:
As an uber-noob player, this thread as been extemely information.

  1. Lot's of what not to do's
  2. Lot's of game mechanics I wasn't aware of.
  3. Lot's of things to further research.
  4. How lively these forums can be.

Thanks to all.


Please take your positive attitude somewhere else, thx.
Ginger Barbarella
#443 - 2012-09-21 15:16:23 UTC
23 pages? Really?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
PI Maker
Doomheim
#444 - 2012-09-21 16:58:31 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
No problem, here to help. Also, since the profit margin is often so thin and the pirate is dependent on all the ships deliver as much DPS as possible it makes counter strategies like blackbirds or logis viable. Nothing ruins a pirates day than a freighter jumping out at 5% structure because some ******* good Samaritan. Except for maybe getting the wreck blown up before you can scoop it.

Since you're willing to give tips etc, is my post here a viable ganker counter to slinging?
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#445 - 2012-09-21 17:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Samahiel Sotken
PI Maker wrote:

Since you're willing to give tips etc, is my post here a viable ganker counter to slinging?


The thing about slingshoting as a tactic is, yes we could conceivably interfere in a way that lets us get the freighter anyway, but it dramatically reduces the window in which we can react. Our scanners are looking at something like a half dozen freighters at a time trying to passively lock and freight scan them, then run the scan through a third party system we have for valuation, then making a call whether it's worth hitting. the FC then has to make sure the DPS is staged where he thinks the freighter will end up, and be sure he has concord prepped, and a spare pilot to agress in case of log off. A webber on your part means that at any one of these stages human error may interfere or a superior target may present itself.

Most likely the scanner won't pay attention to you in favor of your neighbor on autopilot. Then the FC won't be able to get the DPS organized and in position fast enough, or won't have a ship to spare shooting your webber. The reality is the pirates are limited mainly by manpower, time, and organization; anything you can do to strain that increases your chances of being passed up for an easier target.

Edit: If Mittens himself sent word from on high that he wanted your freighter dead, we would terminate it with extreme prejudice no matter where or how it was defended; but most freighter kills are targets of opportunity which is a much more narrowly defined set of circumstances.
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
#446 - 2012-09-21 20:08:55 UTC
This is the kind of hard hitting research report that is needed by The Scope. I think they are recruiting!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#447 - 2012-09-21 20:11:59 UTC
i love the notion that you'd pull concord straight to the gate to aggress the freighter before a DPS gank

it's like pubbies don't actually know anything about suicide ganking, shocking!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Auric Megastryke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2012-09-22 21:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Auric Megastryke
Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.

An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.

Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.

If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.

Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities...
Pipa Porto
#449 - 2012-09-22 22:15:17 UTC
Auric Megastryke wrote:
Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.

An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.

Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.

If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.

Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities...



Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#450 - 2012-09-22 23:38:40 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Auric Megastryke wrote:
Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.

An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.

Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.

If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.

Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities...


Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock.

I see no downside to this.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Pipa Porto
#451 - 2012-09-23 00:09:28 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Auric Megastryke wrote:
Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.

An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.

Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.

If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.

Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities...


Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock.

I see no downside to this.


I just realized. JF pilots would be exempt from the Instagib of undocking as they'd jump before losing their invulnerability. Just the buff JFs needed.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Senshi Hawk
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#452 - 2012-09-23 01:08:14 UTC
A very small percentage of the freighters actively travelling in the EVE universe will get ganked. It's not correct to say that a freighter, upon jumping in, is 100% dead. There are many different factors and strategies that come into play.





Scenario 1
- High-value/high-volume that starts in, or ends in, a market hotspot
- Life's hard, wear a helmet

-- Intersects with a ganking hotspot

Summary
(assuming gankers are in system)
A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo will die 100% of the time
A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama with ECM bursting and webbing alt support will not always die, but his alts will die.
A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo, but has strangers in PVP-fit counterganking ships on gate that shortens a ganking ship's volleys is a lucky son of a ***** and might not die.
A ganking fleet that planned for overkill may not be affected by counterganking ships and you might still die.





Scenario 2
- Low-to-medium value or volume that starts in, or ends in, a market hotspot

-- Intersects with a ganking hotspot

Summary
A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo will die if the value of his cargo exceeds the cost of the ganking fleet
A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo against a ganking fleet that isnt running cargo scanners may die depending on the degree of boredness or generalized IDGAF mentality of the ganking fleet
A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama with sufficient ECM bursting alts might not die, but his alts will die.
A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo, but has strangers in PVP-fit counterganking ships on gate that shortens a ganking ship's volleys is a lucky son of a ***** and might not die.
A ganking fleet that planned for overkill may not be affected by counterganking ships and you might still die.





Scenario 3
- Short-haul, the trash heap
- Low risk, low reward

-- Does not intersect with a ganking hotspot
-- Avoids major market hotspots

Summary
A freighter pilot that does not go through ganking or major market hotspots might die if he's in the wrong place at the wrong time
A freighter pilot that does not go through ganking or major market hotspots generally will not die unless he is a dumb ****.






Some random facts that a freighter pilot may want to consider

If you're going to cry, you should be crying about your cargo. If the circumstance dictates that the loss of a billion ISK ship is your greatest obstacle, you should not be flying it in the first place, or at the very least you should be sticking to the third scenario.

Learn politics and set your standings accordingly. It is not uncommon for nullsec gangs who are having trouble finding targets in 0.0 to come gank something as a contingiency plan. One nullsec dweller in highsec is common. Fifteen of them from the same alliance in ganking ships is something completely different. We're not here to take a leisurely stroll.

For the cost of your freighter you can subscribe two accounts. You have no excuse for being defenseless. Triplebox that ****.

Stop generalizing the term "Goons" - how many of your ganked ships were actually shot by one?

If you have 500k m3 worth of items for a value of 95mil, and 1300 m3 worth of items for a value of 1.6bil, haul the expensive stuff in a cloaky hauler! You're a stupid! Yes, I said that right, a stupid!

Despite everything I just said, even in an ideal circumstance, you're still gonna die sooner or later. Chalk it up as part of the job description and move on.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#453 - 2012-09-23 01:15:59 UTC
Senshi Hawk wrote:
carefully thought out yet incorrect pubbie analysis


no
Senshi Hawk
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#454 - 2012-09-23 01:23:37 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Senshi Hawk wrote:
carefully thought out yet incorrect pubbie analysis


no


Go on...
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#455 - 2012-09-23 01:29:09 UTC
we convo every pilot and the ones that say "**** you!" die horribly

all we wanted was to be friends
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#456 - 2012-09-23 01:31:24 UTC
also I've run out of punctuation

how unfortunate
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
Top Shelf
#457 - 2012-09-23 01:50:49 UTC
People who deserve to lose things are losing them.


Carry on, nothing to see here.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#458 - 2012-09-23 01:55:13 UTC
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
People who deserve to lose things are losing them.

Carry on, nothing to see here.

That was sort of the case earlier with certain types of exhumers.

CCP seems unlikely to just carry on when they can carry the miners/freighters/missioners/XXYY to safety.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#459 - 2012-09-23 04:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:
Athena Themis wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.


Which is a bannable offence if they're recycling them.



LOL....no.


Sure it is, been considered an exploit since forever. Are you stupid or just new here?


Because ditching a 51-day refer-a-friend account is a big deal right?

You have to be pants on head ******** to actually want to grind sec status back from suicide ganking (unless that's your thing)- just make a 51 day alt, train into a thrasher/rupture/tornado, gank at will, when the account expires, or your sec status is too difficult to manage (because you're an idiot), make a new alt account.

Edit: I only read the 1st page, and just assumed the next 22 pages was just pubbies whining at each other, you know- like the rest of this forum.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#460 - 2012-09-23 17:54:34 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
we convo every pilot and the ones that say "**** you!" die horribly

all we wanted was to be friends


I need to buy a freighter now.