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Market question regarding PI
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Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#1 - 2012-09-20 15:55:55 UTC
It's two questions actually but they MIGHT be interrelated.

Given that the supply of planets is nearly limitless (yes, some are harder to find than others but there's still more than sufficient supply), why is it that Enriched Uranium is so far and away the most expensive PI in its tier. I get that it has HUGE demand. But that demand should be filled by people building TONS of the stuff. Plasma's aren't THAT hard to find.

Secondly, why are Microfiber Shielding, Polyaramids and Silicate Glass not more expensive? They're the only ones that require two planets and the three inputs for them (felsic magma, reactive gas and autotrophs) are amongst the rarest items on planets.

It's POSSIBLE (though this has not been my experience) that the first is explained by low yields of heavy and noble metals on planets such that you can keep significantly fewer advanced processor facilities going then you could if you (for example) building Polytextiles. However, given the anemic level of autotrophs on most planets, that seems unlikely.

But that doesn't explain the second anomaly which seems very odd to me.

Thoughts?
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#2 - 2012-09-20 16:32:56 UTC
Only 2% of planets are plasma ones, considering the demand is really high and many that produce Enriched Uranium use it for themselves and only sell the excess.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#3 - 2012-09-20 17:00:20 UTC
celebro wrote:
Only 2% of planets are plasma ones, considering the demand is really high and many that produce Enriched Uranium use it for themselves and only sell the excess.


It just seems like NO ONE should be doing PI for anything other then enriched uranium as the disparity is so large...

Maybe my assumption that the supply is not 'effectively unlimited' is flawed.

Still doesn't explain the weirdness around the three P2s that require two planets...


Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-09-20 17:03:57 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:
why is it that Enriched Uranium is so far and away the most expensive PI in its tier.

Because "noble metals" are mad rare in high sec plasma planets. Of every plasma planet I have surveyed, noble metals are a fraction of heavy metals. This makes enriched uranium production very low in high sec. In null, the yield was different. I've not had time to bother checking nearby lowsec worlds.

I make enriched uranium only for fuel blocks for my corporation. I don't sell any.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#5 - 2012-09-20 17:06:19 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:
why is it that Enriched Uranium is so far and away the most expensive PI in its tier.

Because "noble metals" are mad rare in high sec plasma planets. Of every plasma planet I have surveyed, noble metals are a fraction of heavy metals. This makes enriched uranium production very low in high sec. In null, the yield was different. I've not had time to bother checking nearby lowsec worlds.

I make enriched uranium only for fuel blocks for my corporation. I don't sell any.


interesting. The three hi-sec plasmas i set up in last night had roughly equal amounts of both.
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#6 - 2012-09-21 06:20:20 UTC
Plasma and lava planets are usually the toughest to exploit since they generally have lower amounts of resources on it.

On high sec plasma planets, it is almost impossible to set up more than 1 p2 factory meaning, the profit per planet is quite bad.
even in low sec (0.2+) the plasma/lava planets are too crap to bother setting up shop, max 2 p2 factories with maxed skills and a 1 day cycle

The only planets where it does make sense to have a p2 production on is in null sec or wh space and that supply will be used up near there.

The only option which is left is buying both of the p1 and building it on a factory planet. That however adds some import/export taxes and pushes the price up high.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#7 - 2012-09-21 11:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
If only there were other hi sec planets able to produce those metals and in higher quantities.

Oh wait, let me alone in this, I like my profits.

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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#8 - 2012-09-21 13:27:05 UTC
Awww ... dammit VV.

MDD
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-09-21 14:46:15 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:

Given that the supply of planets is nearly limitless (yes, some are harder to find than others but there's still more than sufficient supply), why is it that Enriched Uranium is so far and away the most expensive PI in its tier. I get that it has HUGE demand. But that demand should be filled by people building TONS of the stuff. Plasma's aren't THAT hard to find.


In general highsec plasma planets are pretty bad. Out of my 50 planets 7 are plasma and they are the worst overall planets yield wise. This is because of the high number of other players extracting on the planets and plasma overall low material availability to begin with.

Also the reason why there are not more players producing uranium is because you can simply make more isk extracting other p1/p2 on other planets that yield more isk.


Seminole Sun wrote:

Secondly, why are Microfiber Shielding, Polyaramids and Silicate Glass not more expensive? They're the only ones that require two planets and the three inputs for them (felsic magma, reactive gas and autotrophs) are amongst the rarest items on planets.


Because generally the only time you would be making any of these 3 items would be in P4 manufacturing, which requires a factory planet and therefore players will just make them on the planet anyways so there is very little demand.

It's simply cheaper to buy the P1 mats and make them on planet then it is to buy the P2's/. And since its a facftory planet the need to pre-making these mats would be unnessassery.

I have had several buy orders for all three of these items (regional buy orders, several regions, descent price) for about 3 months now, and I haven't had a single item fullfilled in any of the buy orders, which means people simply do not make them (except for personal use).
Kimimaro Yoga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-22 11:57:51 UTC
First off, profit should be looked at as "what you can get per planet". For the stuff I've made in low and null, I expect a 9-head extractor to get me 48K an hour on a 1-day cycle. Enough to feed 8 basic facs and 4 P2s. If a 9-10 head extractor gathering raws for enriched uranium can't come close to that, then I'd rather stick with higher volume goods.

Second is the convenience issue. If I can find a nice cluster of storms I'd rather make coolant or rocket fuel. Plenty of raws, plenty of demand for product. If you have to buzz all over the place to get to your planets, cuts into the profit/hr. So trying to have five plasmas is probably inefficient.

Third moves into your other point. While doing a lot of jumping is time-consuming, if your planets are in the same system or perhaps next door it's not such a big deal to cross-haul P1's. For example, if I'm making polyaramids, the raws come from temperate and gas worlds. What're the odds that I can find two of each in a single system? So instead of warping A-B-C-D, I cross-ship and warp A-B-A-C-D-C. Five warps instead of three, no big deal.

One last thing to consider is that cross-shipping P1's has a huge advantage over the "make it on one world" approach. If you are only running one raw per planet, you only need one extractor per planet. So you can have a low-maintenance setup and have much higher output than a low-maintenance setup with two extractors. A bit of extra travel time could be well worth the additional production.

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#11 - 2012-09-22 16:34:10 UTC
celebro wrote:
Only 2% of planets are plasma ones, considering the demand is really high and many that produce Enriched Uranium use it for themselves and only sell the excess.

Yes, high sec Noble Metals are scarce.

Even .3 and .4 is not that great either. Descent quantities begin at .2.

Get a T2 Blockade Ronner or Deep Space Transport and go for it.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-09-24 00:17:33 UTC
Upon investigating the planets several folks pointed me at, it appears that a combination of my low planetology skills along with depletion from other players is why my yields blow. Thanks anyway, it looks like my training queue gets changed yet again.