Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I want to see your sh!t domi when the NPC's switch the targets.

It is not a rage quit. It is a well considerated step. So please stop trolling dude.
Eve has lost its glamour for me. You do not know me. So do not arrogate to knwo that this is a rage quit!

The Drake and Tengu will still be good, maybe still holding onto the "Go Drake/Tengu or go home!" title they have now after the change. Just remember. Things could be worse for the Drake and Tengu. They could be Gallente.

CNR/Golem? Used both and the Tengu, Both are better at certain missions than the other.

65+ km is quite nice distance for my Apoc...

And yes, you can do Stop the Thief with turret ship.

Ok, first of all let me set something straight that has been bugging me for a few pages of reading now:

Beam Harby pilots do exist! I use both Harby and Drake as long range ships and i know of there strengths and weaknesses.

http://kb.fleetofthedamned.net/index.php/pilot_detail/1582977350/ships_weapons/

(Drake 2nd most used ship) (99% of the time HML setup)
(Harbinger 3rd most used ship) (99% of the time Beam setup (Heavy or Focused)

If you want to truelly compare Drakes and harbingers you should take everything in account. In skirmish warfare the armor Beam Harbinger is superior too the drake in almost every way. In my setups the harby has more dps, the same effective hp, aproximatly the same speed instant damage and a lot faster locking time. I've flown both the Harbinger and drake hundreds of times, and gotten 186 (harby) vs 211 (drake) kills with it. And still i always prefere the harbinger. The fact that the drake has more kills, is not because of HML - Beam weapon difference, its not because of inherent design flaws of either ship or weapon system because of 2 reasons.

1) Shield fleets go out more often then armor fleets so you get more use of them
2) Blob warfare uses drakes because there easier to skill for, cheap and nearly everyone can use them

I've had my share of skirmish and blob warfare and the ONLY reason that blob warfare uses drakes is the combined Effective HP, easyness to train, and cost effectiveness. In true blob warfare where you have multiple fleets on each side you'll see the following, People with more ship options join there respective fleets eg armor hac Alpha mael and then everyone thats left is told to get into a drake. This is not a design flaw of the HML but of the drake.

Now haveing said that there are a few things i do want to point out towards the HML proposed changes:

Rebalancing the HML is a good thing. I favor the range decrease, especially since the announced TC, TE will allow you to customize your range to a degree that the gun users currently can.

What i fear however is that the HML damage balance is only looked on at its max range to balance it there. As said by myself in previous posts, as well as many others, missile launcher users currently don't have the option to switch to short range damage missiles that have the same range, damage and tracking (read explosion radius/velocity) bonuses, nor do they have the option to change to longer range versions. If you look at a damage graph of a gun, and would theoreticly cycle at each independant range to a ammo thats best suited for that range you get a nice curve of damage gradually decreasing in damage over range.
With Missiles you have a straigth line.

While practicly its impossible to switch to ammo for ever range if you look at this curve and the current missiles the damage output is switched from lower to higher somewhere nearly in the middle. This Straigth line of dps is then further amplified by the fact that you can get good and perfect hits vs always the same damage of missiles. In that sense the theoretical missile is balanced.

A comparison to the practical weapon effectiveness is a little difficult to see without calculating in all those factors; different ammo's from short to long range, its tracking bonuses wich indirectly also affect the chance of good and perfect hits, vs the missile always the same damage from 0 to max range without able to crit.

If you want the missiles to behave with guns, fine, but then let them behave like guns. Give us the High damage, high exlosive velocity, small explosive radius Fury missile, the standard faction missiles and the long range Precision missiles. Give the missiles a comparable damage output at every range instead of one range. Or if you don't like that idea, (wich i don't) check out a few other options to balance the HML missile:

Switch (and or adjust) the power need for Heavy Assault Missile Launchers and Heavy missile launchers
Adjust the power amount of the drake the same as you did with the Hurricane, EG: allow just enough power for 7 HML launchers, a TII link, and a Medium shield extender or 7 HAM a TII link and a Large shield extender

Buff the HAM launcher damage so that ships bonused for the HAM (like sacrilege) don't want to use a different system, and those with bonuses for both want to use the ranges the rest of the fleet is useing instead of one range fits all.

Buff the speed and explosion radius/velocities of the HAM missile so there in line with the short range gun counterparts. High velocity, extreme short flight time of the unguided missiles (read UNGUIDED) shouldn't be a engine or lore problem. In the redesigned caracal i can see the strange scenario that the ship is faster then its HAM missiles.

But most importantly: If you have the time please redesign the drake at the same time as all the other Medium missile useing ships and release them simultaneously

Also note, that the missile redesign heavily threads on the Medium variant. This suggests that the ratio's for small and large missile delivery systems are more in line. With the 6.66% velocity change of Heavy missiles, you have a different missile velocity for one type of missile that look really odd. Have you realized that the heavy missiles will be faster then the light missiles (wich in my eyes should be designed to shoot the relative faster moveing frigate sized ships) Wouldn't it be more logical, to keep the velocity the same but reduce the flight time? In that sense wouldn't it be more logical that the light missile is faster then and the cruise missile slower then the heavy missile?

PS: it would be a great help to try to determine the missile rebalance changes if there would be values to the TE, TC, TD, Fury Rage Javelin and Precision missile changes. Currently we have to make guesses of there influence wich tends to lead to unfounded conclusions

... which I have to train from beginning with 0 SP.
Too much work and especially TIME/MONEY to reach the exact same goal with another race what I have compared now with caldari.
Does someone even read ALL of the posted text? It seems that a few people just read
"Missile.. Stop The Thief.. Quit" and than present another worthless option to compensate a nerf of 4.5 years of skillset.

That's like someone saying "use Drake" to me and I say "but my dps is horrible with just minimum amount of SP in missiles".

But that's the fact that I have to deal with until I can start training missiles after I finish with guns.

But 4,5 years to train Caldari and heavy missiles...

Perhaps I have misunderstood this part of your post or you just want to troll me. It is not so that I have learned 4.5 years just for Heavy missile and Drake. It is that I have learned to fly my caldari ships with all Level 5. But with TD-crap and missile nerf + boosted AI in missions, it seems to be a hard job if I do my missionrunning after thnis winter.
100% caldari, nearly 80 Mill SP total and a lot of free unallocated SP. But I do NOT use this to learn a second race, because of one brain fart from CCP.
I just quit eve. Should CCP find another customer. Whatever! Thats not my business anymore.

I will guarantee that the majority of ships you will encounter will fit a TD, if allowed to affect all weapons with a change of a script.

TD were not overly prevalent due to being useless against missile ships. You fitted one on expectations of fighting a turret ship, if you guessed wrong you had a module that was useless for the situation and just wasted a midslot.

But if these changes happen you remove the stragedy and thinking of fitting a TD or not. You now just fit one and pretty much win if your opponent doesn't have a TD of their own.

This will become a must have module to fit in order to be competitive and will become a severe issue in the game. Even Fozzie acknowledges that such a problem could happen.

But this can all be avoided if ccp makes a separate module for missile disruption.