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I take its a variable time between a rat switching, otherwise peeps might be able to tailor less tank?

An AI template just for them, different form the mission AI template. Mainly because the goal of an FW mission can be different than that of a normal mission, so the NPCs should be different to account for that.

I fly a Navy Domi in missions.I don't AFK them as I got a less than maximum tank (so I can fit drone damage augmentors). I control the aggro, and recall drones when I new wave hits so the drones do not catch aggro. Ill have to see just how bad this is for us drone users. Maybe Ill fit a RR to keep the sentries repped.

If you are a solo mission runner using turrets or missiles, this is a virtual non-change. It only impacts drone users and fleets.

Forget the the FSP final, (aside from maybe losing a fighter -try fitting sebo and remote reps, should be OK-, worst case it switches to a siege dread 'plex), its the MAZE that's going to be impossible to complete with this change since it requires sub-caps.

Hohoho.

How you gonna name this expansion? Eve-Online: AdaptOrDiesion?

[Q) Will NPC's kill my drones?
A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though.]

How much more often did you have to recall them?

My concern here is that drones are a pretty simple mechanic - deploy, attack, recall. I don't know of any good way to remove aggro from them short of recalling. So if "paying attention" meanss "recall them when damaged," and they get damaged more often, this sounds essentially the same as "drone users, get ready to wait around a lot more."

The relative slowness of drones (esp heavies) means that increasing the rate at which they're aggroed significantly decreases effective DPS. The effect being more pronounced the large the drones in question.

I'm all for "paying attention," but if that just means waiting around for your drones to get there/come back, I'll fly something else, thanks. Please tell me im missing something.

That.

But generally, whilst I think the changes sound great (ratting in WH certainly made me rethink a few things!) I'd like to reiterate an earlier concern in that it may make training up new mission runners harder as you can't take all the aggro for them (mistakes aside). TBH up until lvl 4's I see PvE as "GTFO at the right time" training, as well as new pilots being able to test fits & different combat styles without costing them a lot of ISK & fun/woe in non-hisec.

Lvl 4 adds the only real threat, warp scram. Which is packed by frigs. So if the smaller ships (& newer pilots) will be taking incoming frigs they will be more at risk than the BS pilots they are flying with.

Getting ppl slightly fighty off mining and onto mish running surely has to be a good thing, and given only mining some ABC ores is more profitable than hisec ores for some time now, we tempt with lvl 4 bounty & loot with relatively low risk. Adding barriers to entry for mish running may be somewhat counter-productive -- especially as the grind up to lvl4's is pretty hellish given the chronic lack of variety in missions.

I can see the added "realism" will make for better training but there's def a downside IMO. Maybe instead of all mission rats getting the same brain upgrade, have some lower-reward missions with rats that don't target switch or similar?

Every NPC should warp disrupt a capital ship if it is on field. No matter what part of space or mission/anomaly it is.

I would have to be one of those Drone pilots that is a little concerned.

First off I don't AFK. But regardless, the issue is especially with Heavies. If you have your heavy drones out at 45km and they take aggro, they are so slow that often they will die before they can get back.

Now before you say, "just stay closer to your drones" keep in mind that for say a Battleship class mission runner 45km is probably a good range. A turret based BS would be engaging at 45km so it is reasonable that a drone ship (like a dominix) would be expected to engage at that range as well.

It also hampers drone ships much more, as they will have to waste time recalling and re-deploying, further putting drone pilots behind the curve vs turret based ships.

Luckily I mostly prefer sentries. But still, it could be more annoying. Maybe if NPC's had the ability to target a ships turrets...

I would like to add something to this comment, to feed your thoughts.


As long as things are "predictable" enough you will end up with what I will call the "Incursion" effect. Although you (CCP) simulated all the superficial things players do in a PVP environment in Incursions, i.e. Remote Reps, EWAR, Fast ships, mobility, etc...

The predictability of it always will lean towards the most lazy way to do it. If I had to face the SAME PVP fight against other players, every. single. day. I would get REALLY good at tweaking my setups to let me get the job done with the least brain power required, especially when relying on 20 other people to help me. Maybe eventually, someone, would get bored enough to want to try other stuff, but the average person will just resort to the least complicated solution.

In those cases it means Tank, Gank, and spank it.

A bit of randomness gets people all out of sorts because, oh... my... god... i have to react to stuff I am not expecting. My ISK/HR is going down because I have to actually REACT to stuff, which means I have to ::

1. Observe the Situation
2. Analyze the Situation
3. Decide on a Solution
4. React on my decision to the situation
5. Assess my decision to the situation,
6. Return to step 1.

Which for most people leads to... BOOM

Ok, but really. Chaos is the real solution because that is what PVP really is! There is so much Chaos in the machine, from other players interfering with fights, to unintentional stupidity, etc. You should really look into making the NPC experience feel like more than just a room with stuff in it. Also, failure (not necessarily blowing up kind of failure), is also a good incentive to have setups more prepared to react, rather than predict the situation.

I know this is... a loooong time away.

But, I know you guys are smart enough to have observed this, but just keep it in mind.

Please ensure that the loot drops are commensurate with the level of effort required to clear the site. Requiring large numbers of players in expensive and well-tanked ships with really crappy drop rates is not a positive change, nor does it add much "fun" to this "game."

Stated another way, I believe that it is fair to make PvE more challenging. Players will always rise up to the challenge to figure out solutions to problems. But please make certain that, when players rise up to the occassion, the rewards match both the level of effort and the hardware required to create the solution.