Player Features and Ideas Discussion

And as I've said several times, the weapons system itself can be balanced, I just think CCP is going about it a bit too heavy handed. The only difference I'm proposing from Fozzie's nerf is reducing the damage nerf from 20% to 10%.

I'm curious as to how the TE/TC changes will pan out, but those stats haven't been released yet so I can't really say whether I'd be happy using the tracking script on HAMs, for example.

How bad would one TD be for heavy missiles? - a little theorycrafting

First some data



*With all skills at V and no ship bonus, one scripted T2 disruptor will give 50.25% (value from EFT) penalty to the target as things are right now.

* It's assumed that a scripted TD will increase the explosion radius with +50.25%.

* It is assumed that the explosion velocity will be penalized with the same value but with opposite sign, in other words -50.25%. This is a guess however, it is not verified.



* T2 ammo will apparently be changed, so no point in checking the effects of a TD on them. T1 and faction only.

* With all skills a V and no ship bonuses, T1 and faction heavy missiles currently have an explosion radius of 93.75m, the explosion velocity is 121.5m/s.



Missile mechanics - brief:

Explosion radius:
If the explosion radius is larger than the targets signature radius, the ratio between the two shows how much damage that gets through. If the ship is bigger it takes full damage but not more.
Example: 100m explosion radius vs a target with 40m signature radius, target takes 40% of the damage (speed and resistance also taken into account after this).

Explosion velocity:
There is a minimum speed that a target must reach to start reducing missile damage beyond that from just size. The exact speed varies from case to case, for a 125m cruiser being shot by heavy missiles it is 106m/s. If this minimum speed can be reached or surpassed damage will begin to decrease further. If a speed that already reduces damage is doubled, that speed increase will result in a missile damage that is roughly two thirds (66%) of what the target took previously. This is regardless of which type of heavies that is used (the exact numbers are: T1 or faction = 62%, T2 precision = 67% and T2 fury = 54% remaining damage after the speed doubling).

If the TD debuff is -50.25% to the heavy missile explosion velocity (so down to half), this will be mathematically identical to a case where the targets speed instead became twice as fast. As a result the damage drops to roughly two thirds from that TD, at the most, but the reduction can be less too (if the target is big or moving slow).


Some numbers:

Missiles against slow targets (only size reduction to damage):

T1 heavy missiles (93.75m expl rad) against stationary or slow targets of various sizes with one perfect TD debuff:
Target (signature radius) -- normal damage -- damage with one debuffing TD (+50.25%)
Frigate (40m) -- 42.7% -- 28.4%
Cruiser (125m) -- 100% (133%) -- 88.7%
BC (250m) -- 100% (267%) -- 100% (177%)
BS (400m) -- 100% (427%) -- 100% (284%)


Missiles against "fast" targets (speed reduction to damage):

T1 heavy missiles (93.75m expl rad, 121.5m/s expl vel) against targets of various sizes that has reached the minimum required speed to reduce damage further, also one perfect TD debuff:
Target (signature radius) -- speed -- normal damage -- damage with one debuffing TD (+50.25% explosion radius AND -50.25% explosion velocity)
Frigate (40m) -- 181m/s -- 42.7 % -- 18%
Cruiser (125m) -- 106m/s -- 100% (133%) -- 55%
BC (250m) -- 77m/s -- 100% (267%) -- 100% (111%)
BS (400m) -- 62m/s -- 100% (427%) -- 100% (177%)

Result:
One perfect TD (no ship bonuses) will have the following results on a ship using T1 or faction heavy missiles. It is also assumed that the target is armor tanked (since shield tanks are larger).
Against a moving frigate the damage will be halved (42%), when the TD is activated.
Against a moving cruiser the damage will be halved (55%), when the TD is activated.
No effects seen against BC's (of 250m radius, tier 3 bc's will likely see some reduction).
No effect on BS's.


Disclaimer:
I could have made calculation errors or wrongful assumptions, these numbers might not be correct. I only did this because I wanted to learn more about missiles and see how a TD might effect them.


References and a few formulas, in case anyone want to bash my math:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage

calculating speeds needed to see a damage reduction effect
Vt > Ve * (S/E)^((k-1)/k) where k=(ln(drf)/ln(5.5)) (variable names from link above)

calculating the 'taken damage multiplier' from doubling a speed already high enough to give a damage reduction
Damage multiplier = 1 / 2^(ln(drf)/ln(5.5))
(drf values for heavy missiles: T1 and faction = 3.2, T2 precision = 2.7, T2 fury = 4.5)

1: i hope a troll remover comes along, cause the **** starts here.

2: The bottleneck in this game is SP. Yes, i would have stooped playing a few times during the few years i played, but i own something like 150 plex. It does not make the game good, it makes it free.

If CCP keeps on nerfing / changing / boosting all over the place with 0 thinking for people who will have worthless toons after said changes, i will take my crystal ball and predict an even bigger treadnaught later.

I know. But it is so aweful hard to do calculations with no numbers :( So I picked the value that the guns suffer from, seemed reasonable for now.

I see that we've moved from denial and rage on to the bargaining stage of grief. Keep at it. You're almost at acceptance.

Onictus,
Stand in the corner over there and play with things in your own paygrade - untill then leave a comment that is worth looking at or play WOW.

Wrong.
Both on your interpretation of what i have typed, and on what it is I am saying.

And also because part of what i'm trying to get accross was merely implied, because i thought (foolishly) that it would be read by intelligent, literate people, who would see where I was going .... my bad .


The raw unskilled data has an ERROR in it, and looking at that data has highlighted it.
The error is specifically in the data for heavy missiles ...... in that they are not balanced at a BASIC level in line with other medium weapons.
When the game takes that erroneous data and then modifies it by your skills, and your then by Ship Modifiers, and your finally by your fitting modifiers it has compounded that initial error several times, by multiple factors.

Fix the basic error, then look at what needs to be changed in Module/Ship Modifiers, and skill bonus modifiers, if at all by that point.


See where I was going now .......

I AM saying heavy missiles are broken .... but for a totally different reason to you.

Or maybe you can do some thinking for yourself on how you will make these changes work for you instead of standing there with your arms crossed stamping your foot demanding things from CCP. You are not entitled to anything nerfs happen quit acting like a 2 year old or as you so kindly put it WOW is ----> way.

I can fly four races with T2 weapons, BS and down.......tell me about my paygrade please.

Specially after it took you three years to train










.....a Drake?

I would much prefer weapon based disruptors over this global disruptor nonsense. If you do implement a missile disruptor, also consider implementing "control disruptors" that affect drone damage stats that can be applied to the controlling ship. This would provide an ewar option that doesn't have to hit each individual drone. I'm not a big fan of all this homogenization, but lets at least homogenize equally if we have to homogenize.