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Trit is worthless?
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#21 - 2012-09-18 22:45:01 UTC
Souisa wrote:
On a spreadsheet veld/scord might tell you its the better ore, but if you factor in travel back and forth to station it might not be.


Scordite is currently the most valuable hisec ore (and almost the most valuable ore, full stop) in terms of ISK per cubic metre. Thus one full load of Scordite is worth more ISK than one full load of any other ore you will find in hisec. Thus shuttling stuff back and forth is irrelevant.

As for handling the volumes of tritanium and pyerite required: the clever industrialist will simply post buy orders for the respective minerals at a station where they plan to perform the manufacturing. Alternately, post buy orders at a market hub and set up courier contracts to haul the minerals to your place of manufacture.

It's not rocket surgery :)

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#22 - 2012-09-18 22:51:45 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy.
.
.
.
You have to factor in hauling costs

What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate?


Opportunity costs. I live about 32 jumps away from Jita, and that's about an hour or more of RL time waiting for that slow-ass freighter to make the trip. That's one of the reasons I quit going to Jita -- too far. I go to a closer trade-hub and take a lower per-unit price in exchange for fewer jumps.

Time has value, in EVE as in real life. I'm still amazed that more EVE players don't get that. Time really is money.


Seriously??!! You factor in RL time playing a game? In-game time is relative because you would in effect be doing something else thus the amount of RL time used is static.

Your problem is trying to convert RL time into ISK. You would be better off using your RL time making RM surely?

Then you can convert the RM into PLEX >> ISK and make even more if we're going ot be THAT a-retentive!

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Natasha Taggart
Templar Directorate Holdings
United Interests
#23 - 2012-09-18 23:27:05 UTC
Dont lie to OP...

its worthless as you suspected... so leave it all for me!

its all about trade offs, and no one thing has a major advantage over another thing, its not important if its ships, ore, minerals, modules... there is trade and balance in this game thats so carefully tended by CCP that in spite of the huge painintheass it is, its sort of charming cause it sticks it on the player to define what they want/need.....


I am a space luv kitty, and trit is exzellent
If you could eat one single crayon from the big box of 64, what color would it be... and why would you pick that one?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#24 - 2012-09-19 00:27:28 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around



It's not a logistical nightmare. I bought all the minerals for a Hyperion, (~168K cu.m), and built the ship 3 jumps away from where I purchased them without actually doing more than zipping over to run the manufacturing task in my Ares once they arrived.

It took 1 Courier contract, a 5 million ISK reward, and about 3-7 hours. Don't remember the exact time as I wasn't actually paying that much attention. Add 3-1/2 hours to manufacture and there you go. Just remember to keep your Collateral higher than the shipping value and you're good.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Ryhss
#25 - 2012-09-19 00:33:19 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around

Use an Orca or freighter.

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-09-19 00:39:04 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:

Seriously??!! You factor in RL time playing a game? In-game time is relative because you would in effect be doing something else thus the amount of RL time used is static.

Your problem is trying to convert RL time into ISK. You would be better off using your RL time making RM surely?


Time is the only currency in EVE.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-09-19 01:13:47 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy.
.
.
.
You have to factor in hauling costs

What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate?


Your time genius. It's a cost.

As for your orca, unless it's active on grid, you'd be ebtter mining in a mackinaw and hauling when the ore old is full than using a hulk + orca to haul a few can. If both are in flight at the same time, it's still ebtter to use 2 mackinaw.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#28 - 2012-09-19 02:15:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy.
.
.
.
You have to factor in hauling costs

What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate?


Your time genius. It's a cost.

As for your orca, unless it's active on grid, you'd be ebtter mining in a mackinaw and hauling when the ore old is full than using a hulk + orca to haul a few can. If both are in flight at the same time, it's still ebtter to use 2 mackinaw.


ok. i been away 4 months but since when does a mack beat a hulk on rocks ? just use 2 hulks if you can fly 2 ships.

And STOP kiddding yourself about time. if you were serious about time, use that time to make REAL money and convert to ISK.

It's far more effective use of your time if you insist on on factoring time as a cost.

Someone on $45 per hour = 3 x plex - 1.5b per hour. You won't make that mining/hauling or manufacturing - EVER.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Herr Hammer Draken
#29 - 2012-09-19 05:33:14 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around



So what you are saying is Trit should be worth double what it is now in order for miners to be convinced to mine it.
LMAO!

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Zeran Kariashi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-09-19 08:59:35 UTC
Yeah that threw me for a loop about them suddenly changing the Skiff and Mackinaw's roles....I'm still not 100%sure whether is better to jet can with my hulk or just use my mackinaw since it's only....like 4-5% less total yield then a hulk after the changes. And the mackinaw's ore hold is almost x5 larger then the hulks so less headaches to work with there.

Can't remember which post had the math but the difference between them is VERY minor now. If you're in a group and have someone picking up ore, then the hulk is definitely better, but if you're by yourself, with only 1 account, the mackinaw is probably the best option...less chance of your cans getting jacked while you're switching ships or having too many assets out in space for when you need to cut and run.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-09-19 09:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Touval Lysander wrote:
And STOP kiddding yourself about time. if you were serious about time, use that time to make REAL money and convert to ISK.

Sure it's a way to go, but IRL money to ISK conversion aside, I can't really understand what part of "time you spend hauling is time you don't spend mining more" you don't understand. If you use separate alt for hauling, then you still have to pay additional PLEX, so it's still not free. The fact that it can be cost-effective is completely another story.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#32 - 2012-09-19 09:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
LOL at all the talk about cost and opportunity cost by people who are wasting time playing a computer game. $ gets you ISK, but you can't turn ISK into $ folks. Reality check. Play EvE for fun, not everything is about maximizing profit in a fictional currency.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#33 - 2012-09-19 10:11:46 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
ib4chribba

trit is worthless, only veldspar matters.

/c

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Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

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Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#34 - 2012-09-19 10:50:21 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around

HUH??? surly ye jest...I love the Veldspar and the Scordite, I mine those the most and others as mineral requirements dictates ALL HAIL THE HOLY VELD!!!!
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#35 - 2012-09-19 11:02:38 UTC
Souisa wrote:
On a spreadsheet veld/scord might tell you its the better ore, but if you factor in travel back and forth to station it might not be. Low-sec mining and 0.0 mining of trit and pyer is not desirable, unless you are mining it for your own consumption, because the minerals and ores take up too much space according to their value to be worth hauling to high sec


When it comes to Nullsec it's actually not because of the space. It's more cost effective to just mine highends and use logistics to move any access highends to high sec and sell off. As for lowends you just buy them in Jita, compress them, and ship them off. The only time you mine lowends is too pop grav sites to spawn new ones. The fix to this is either massively boost lowend output in null, or nerf compression.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-09-19 14:15:21 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
ib4chribba

trit is worthless, only veldspar matters.

/c


This man speaks the truth.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#37 - 2012-09-19 15:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Touval Lysander wrote:
Souisa wrote:
I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around

Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca.

I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done.

If you want to see how this is done just let me know where you mine and I'll show you.

I hope you are not leaving the Orca unpiloted floating in space. People look for those and steal them.

Edit: Lets say you are solo mining Veld, refine locally, then haul the result to a trade hub with a freighter. How many hours of mining does it take to fill the freighter? Answer: Around 30 hours. Compared to that, the 30-60 minutes it takes to do the freighter run to the nearest trade hub is not that big a deal.

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Frozen fanfiction
Shane Joven
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-09-19 16:02:14 UTC
Is it easier to move minerals or ore?
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-09-19 16:25:28 UTC
Shane Joven wrote:
Is it easier to move minerals or ore?


Minerals take up far less space than raw ore per unit, so an indy can carry far more ISK/m3 worth of minerals than ore.

On the other hand, if your refining skills are low, you'll make more ISK by just selling the raw ore (though getting it to a market hub involves logistical hassles due to the bulk).
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-09-19 16:30:43 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy.
.
.
.
You have to factor in hauling costs

What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate?


Your time genius. It's a cost.

As for your orca, unless it's active on grid, you'd be ebtter mining in a mackinaw and hauling when the ore old is full than using a hulk + orca to haul a few can. If both are in flight at the same time, it's still ebtter to use 2 mackinaw.


ok. i been away 4 months but since when does a mack beat a hulk on rocks ? just use 2 hulks if you can fly 2 ships.

And STOP kiddding yourself about time. if you were serious about time, use that time to make REAL money and convert to ISK.

It's far more effective use of your time if you insist on on factoring time as a cost.

Someone on $45 per hour = 3 x plex - 1.5b per hour. You won't make that mining/hauling or manufacturing - EVER.


Let me help you here Mr know it all.

The bonus a hulk gets in yields is totally killed by the fact you spend time hauling that ore with another ship, be it on another account or the same account.

1 macks beats 1 hulk + hauler on same account. The time spend warping to station and back to get the ahuler then again to come back to mining cost you more what doing a single trip in a mack with it's LARGE ore bay.

2 macks beats 1 hulk + orca hauling with boost while not moving. More strip miner active all the time. The secong account mined exactly 0m3 while hauling and some % because of boost to the hulk while stationary. In that time, the mack mined about 90% of a hulk yield. Might be more.

3 mack slightly beats 2 hulk + orca hauling/boosting. The boost is not yet big enough but it's getting really close.

4 macks does nto beat 3 hulk + orca boosting/hauling. The mining bonus now finally offset the "lost" exhumer cost of having a hauler insetaf of another miner.

Your hauling time affect your isk/hours ALL THE TIME. If you do not see the hauling time as a cost to your isk/hours, you don't know how to count.
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