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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#1141 - 2012-09-19 10:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Callidus Dux wrote:

Do not miss the sh!t with the TD. Evil
Now you can use Defenders, Smartbombs and TD to intercept / disturb missiles. At least do not implement this crap with TD affecting missiles! Or can I use Smartbombs and Defenders against gunnery? Who is that crackbrained dumba$$ who think that this is a good idea?
To bring two ships in line with others you ruin on race at once.

As i said, missiles will become obsolete.
Take golem for example, if you do level 4 missions with golem and npc's are shooting defender missiles at you, your cruise missiles are going to be destroyed, at least 2 of them that's 50% less dps from defender missiles.
Now imagine npc's tracking distrupting and using defender missiles at once...
This is how **** missiles will get if this nerf is going to hit TQ.

So with golem you do like 80% less dps because of this.
Not to mention range, when 20 sansha frigates track distrupt you, you'll get like 18km on cruise missiles.

in PVP it means:
Smartbombs, Tracking Disruptors and defender missiles, so missiles are destroyed before they even get into 30km range.
Salmon Ella
Exolon Trading
#1142 - 2012-09-19 10:15:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Signal11th wrote:



Yes and in that is the problem it isn't affecting one ship it's affecting lots.


Indeed it is. Many ships are now going to be viable.



Please....Roll Christ it's like Communism or Year 0 everyone is equal everyone is happy everyone is content..

This really has a whiff of 0.0 involvement in it.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1143 - 2012-09-19 10:20:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Signal11th wrote:



Yes and in that is the problem it isn't affecting one ship it's affecting lots.


Indeed it is. Many ships are now going to be viable.


This is the other side of the coin that Draektards refuse to acknowledge.

Nerfing HML efficiency to be on par with other LR med weapons will shift the meta of PVE, making other races just as good choices for many players across New Eden. No longer "train Drake, then Tengu" as the only correct answer for budding bears, now you can choose other ships and not be shadowed by overpowered ships.

Obviously it will reduce the total output of farming and botting as well, making our economy healthier.


.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1144 - 2012-09-19 10:21:25 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:

Yea, and a vindicator can get 2200dps. An enyo can get 500.
I wanna see the tengu fit with 800dps...let me take a guess its ham fit? And please, dont even bother posting a 6 launcher setup for a "standard fleet fit"


If you want the damage of close range weapons you dont fit long range weapons. HML are not ment to be high damage powerhoses they are for long range combat and thus, are being balanced to the other long range weapons. If you want high damage you use HAMs.

Highs
6x Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Mids
1x 10MN Afterburner II
1x Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1x Explosive Deflection Field II
2x EM Ward Field II
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Lows
1x Damage Control II
3x Ballistic Control System II
Rigs
3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Subs
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Standard fleet setup for the CFC, copied from PLs cheap fit, used by just about every powerblock in 0.0 and aside from the swarms of pve tengu is the most common setup going.

500+ DPS with a 93 km range.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1145 - 2012-09-19 10:24:20 UTC
Ahernar wrote:
Damn Big smile .Liked the Tengu AND the Drake but i'm aware that were OP .The thing is the other HM boats were not OP and this weapon system nerf is hurting them more , without reason . Maybe an adjustement to the kin bonus of the drake and tengu would have sufficed (2% per level for ex instead of 5).

Anyway crunching hard HAM's in EFT :)


The HML caracal is going to be in much better shape when this hitsBlink
Salmon Ella
Exolon Trading
#1146 - 2012-09-19 10:25:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:

Yea, and a vindicator can get 2200dps. An enyo can get 500.
I wanna see the tengu fit with 800dps...let me take a guess its ham fit? And please, dont even bother posting a 6 launcher setup for a "standard fleet fit"


If you want the damage of close range weapons you dont fit long range weapons. HML are not ment to be high damage powerhoses they are for long range combat and thus, are being balanced to the other long range weapons. If you want high damage you use HAMs.

Highs
6x Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Mids
1x 10MN Afterburner II
1x Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1x Explosive Deflection Field II
2x EM Ward Field II
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Lows
1x Damage Control II
3x Ballistic Control System II
Rigs
3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Subs
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Standard fleet setup for the CFC, copied from PLs cheap fit, used by just about every powerblock in 0.0 and aside from the swarms of pve tengu is the most common setup going.

500+ DPS with a 93 km range.




On a ship that cost over half a bil and you lose sp when you die... nice.
Salmon Ella
Exolon Trading
#1147 - 2012-09-19 10:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Salmon Ella
Roime wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Signal11th wrote:



Yes and in that is the problem it isn't affecting one ship it's affecting lots.


Indeed it is. Many ships are now going to be viable.


This is the other side of the coin that Draektards refuse to acknowledge.

Nerfing HML efficiency to be on par with other LR med weapons will shift the meta of PVE, making other races just as good choices for many players across New Eden. No longer "train Drake, then Tengu" as the only correct answer for budding bears, now you can choose other ships and not be shadowed by overpowered ships.

Obviously it will reduce the total output of farming and botting as well, making our economy healthier.





Then what is the point of different races different modules different ships, everything will be the same in your Utopia so it won't matter what we turn up in. I see that the people who don't agree with this now have a name or a label. First rule of dehumanisation.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1148 - 2012-09-19 10:27:54 UTC
Quote:
The HML caracal is going to be in much better shape when this hits


Not really. The extra slots get cancelled out by the missile nerf. Plus, you know, T1 cruisers.

Still wondering why the don't just change the resist bonus/slot layout on the drake and balance the accelerated ejection/fuel catalyst on the tengu. I mean instead of changing all heavy missiles. Wouldn't that make more sense?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1149 - 2012-09-19 10:29:58 UTC
Salmon Ella wrote:



On a ship that cost over half a bil and you lose sp when you die... nice.


isk cost is never a way to balance things. See titans.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1150 - 2012-09-19 10:31:44 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Quote:
The HML caracal is going to be in much better shape when this hits


Not really. The extra slots get cancelled out by the missile nerf. Plus, you know, T1 cruisers.

Still wondering why the don't just change the resist bonus/slot layout on the drake and balance the accelerated ejection/fuel catalyst on the tengu. I mean instead of changing all heavy missiles. Wouldn't that make more sense?


No because the HML needed to be changed to bring them in line with the other med long range weapons. Both the tengu and the drake will be changing when they get teircided.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1151 - 2012-09-19 10:33:58 UTC
Bringing into line in this case means 'make useless'. You never see rail feroxes or brutixes, beam harbingers or eagles at all for a good reason. The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1152 - 2012-09-19 10:34:47 UTC
Salmon Ella wrote:



Then what is the point of different races different modules different ships, everything will be the same in your Utopia so it won't matter what we turn up in. I see that the people who don't agree with this now have a name or a label. First rule of dehumanisation.


Missiles will retain their ability to hit for exactly the same damage no matter the range where as turret ships do less damage the further away they are.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1153 - 2012-09-19 10:35:48 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Bringing into line in this case means 'make useless'. You never see rail feroxes or brutixes, beam harbingers or eagles at all for a good reason. The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes).


You dont see them because the drake outclasses them with heavy missiles.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1154 - 2012-09-19 10:37:33 UTC
Quote:
You dont see them because the drake outclasses them with heavy missiles.


The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes).
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1155 - 2012-09-19 10:41:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:

Yea, and a vindicator can get 2200dps. An enyo can get 500.
I wanna see the tengu fit with 800dps...let me take a guess its ham fit? And please, dont even bother posting a 6 launcher setup for a "standard fleet fit"


If you want the damage of close range weapons you dont fit long range weapons. HML are not ment to be high damage powerhoses they are for long range combat and thus, are being balanced to the other long range weapons. If you want high damage you use HAMs.

Highs
6x Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Mids
1x 10MN Afterburner II
1x Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1x Explosive Deflection Field II
2x EM Ward Field II
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Lows
1x Damage Control II
3x Ballistic Control System II
Rigs
3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Subs
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Standard fleet setup for the CFC, copied from PLs cheap fit, used by just about every powerblock in 0.0 and aside from the swarms of pve tengu is the most common setup going.

500+ DPS with a 93 km range.


Did you seriously just post a 10mn ab 6 launcher setup after i specifically told you not to bother posting a 6 launcher setup? Yes they use that...against arty maelstorms because they cant track abing cruisers for **** and tengus have a good tank. Not because HMLs do trollolo dps.
And this fit is outdated anyway. current apoc navy doctrine smashse this.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1156 - 2012-09-19 10:41:58 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Quote:
You dont see them because the drake outclasses them with heavy missiles.


The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes).


teir 3 BCs have a soft underbelly that can be exploited by fast cruisers and arty canes high alpha produce a similar DPS to the other long range weapons so its not like the are going to be sitting on a throne made from melted down railboats on a hill of drake skulls.
Salmon Ella
Exolon Trading
#1157 - 2012-09-19 10:42:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Smabs wrote:
Bringing into line in this case means 'make useless'. You never see rail feroxes or brutixes, beam harbingers or eagles at all for a good reason. The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes).


You dont see them because the drake outclasses them with heavy missiles.



But again you cant have everything equal, it doesn't work.
Mr John Smith
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1158 - 2012-09-19 10:42:07 UTC
Heavy Missiles! The new Failguns! I meen railguns.


Also, bad luck Caracal, get buffed by tericide, weapon systems nerfed by CCP next week.


but seriously, the range nerf to HML's was warranted, they are a cruiser based weapon after all and the range on some missile boats is pretty ridiculous, but 20% damage? They're already one of the lowest dps weapon systems around. You're over doing it, please re-think this one; talk with the CSM about it, please.


Also, with this boost to tracking disrupter's could you consider a very slight reduction in base stats? To bring them in line with other E-War which is only very effective on bonus'd ships.
Salmon Ella
Exolon Trading
#1159 - 2012-09-19 10:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Salmon Ella
baltec1 wrote:
Smabs wrote:
Quote:
You dont see them because the drake outclasses them with heavy missiles.


The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes).


teir 3 BCs have a soft underbelly that can be exploited by fast cruisers and arty canes high alpha produce a similar DPS to the other long range weapons so its not like the are going to be sitting on a throne made from melted down railboats on a hill of drake skulls.



See again you're for the nerf for HML but everytime you counter an argument you use bonuses or lack of bonuses on the ship to say why its a good idea.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1160 - 2012-09-19 10:44:57 UTC
Salmon Ella wrote:

Then what is the point of different races different modules different ships, everything will be the same in your Utopia so it won't matter what we turn up in. I see that the people who don't agree with this now have a name or a label. First rule of dehumanisation.


Only their relative efficiency is balanced, that doesn't make them "the same".


.