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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko
#1101 - 2012-09-19 08:59:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie, will the tracking mods affect HAMLs/Torpedoes? And will the Motion Prediction skill affect missiles?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1102 - 2012-09-19 09:00:24 UTC
Signal11th wrote:


Probably even less but their only seems to be 3 or 4 of the usual people supporting this and everyone else hating it.

What happens when the "new thing" that replaces the Drake and Tengu becomes too popular... It's the same old crappy circles that CCP do instead of concentrating on things people have actually asked for.



Haters don't seem to be capable of presenting any sensible arguments.

Anyway, Drakes and Tengus are the single anomaly, their overwhelming popularity dwarfing anything else in the game. Why do you think rabalancing this would lead to a similar ridiculous spike, when the other ships are more or less balanced?

Embrace the change, winter will be awesome with a huge number of revamped ships, which will lead into a much more varied field of gang compositions and tactics.

<3

.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1103 - 2012-09-19 09:01:57 UTC
Signal11th wrote:



Probably even less but their only seems to be 3 or 4 of the usual people supporting this and everyone else hating it.

What happens when the "new thing" that replaces the Drake and Tengu becomes too popular... It's the same old crappy circles that CCP do instead of concentrating on things people have actually asked for.



We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf. We more than likely will end up with the new thing but at least HML wont dominate the med weapon ship lineup and the cane is more realistic with fitting requirements.

The simple fact is that the cane will still be a good ship and HML will still be on par with the other med long range weapons after these changes. More options in PVP is always a good thing.
Signal11th
#1104 - 2012-09-19 09:02:10 UTC
Roime wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


Probably even less but their only seems to be 3 or 4 of the usual people supporting this and everyone else hating it.

What happens when the "new thing" that replaces the Drake and Tengu becomes too popular... It's the same old crappy circles that CCP do instead of concentrating on things people have actually asked for.



Haters don't seem to be capable of presenting any sensible arguments.

Anyway, Drakes and Tengus are the single anomaly, their overwhelming popularity dwarfing anything else in the game. Why do you think rabalancing this would lead to a similar ridiculous spike, when the other ships are more or less balanced?

Embrace the change, winter will be awesome with a huge number of revamped ships, which will lead into a much more varied field of gang compositions and tactics.

<3




Then tweak the ships not the missles.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1105 - 2012-09-19 09:05:41 UTC
Signal11th wrote:



Then tweak the ships not the missles.


Its the missiles causing the problems.
Signal11th
#1106 - 2012-09-19 09:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
baltec1 wrote:
Signal11th wrote:



Then tweak the ships not the missles.


Its the missiles causing the problems.



Not really its the bounses from the ships that cause the problems with the missles, see nighthawk, not really any decent bonuses on it so no one really uses it because other ships have better bonuses.
Yep I can hit to 80km but the damage isnt that great,

Now put my in a Tengu with all the fancy bonuses and I'm hitting 25% harder 20% further and 15% faster. (these numbers are jusxt for emphasis not any accuracy.)
Now with a drake I can stick a BS tank on that and sit with my 100 mates and just sit there taking a shed load of damage from 70k out.
So now I'll just bring 120 drakes instead of 100.

Its a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


I'm all for a boost to the HAMS though because its what I use..

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#1107 - 2012-09-19 09:11:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

5 or 6. All of them posting in this topic over how its horrible their Op ships are finally getting a nerf.
Now if you hadn't said "5 or 6" etc, I might have taken your comment seriously, considered it. It's all about trolling, pvp and F* everyone else, eh? wtg, get ccp into a nerf frenzy rather than actually fixing this game. Think it'll be more than 5 or 6 just on that reason alone.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#1108 - 2012-09-19 09:16:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
and there's barely enough slots to fit a decent tank on most Caldari BS sized ships as it is.

If they gave us extra Mids/Lows to accommodate the modules then you'd have a point, but they aren't so you haven't.

Well, the changes don't really affect BS...


I meant BC. Apologies.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1109 - 2012-09-19 09:18:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Its the missiles causing the problems.


Which is nonsense, my two 100MNAB PVP Tengus (active and a passive tanked one) with lvl 5 sub skills and fours or fives in most missile skills, do about 400dps with faction launchers and BCUs, these are ships that I've spent billions of ISK on.

On there own Tengus are overpowered because of the tanks that you can achieve on them and the fact that the prop mod allows you to achieve high speeds without a corresponding sig radius increase, so you can run away from anyone you can't fight most of the time, not because of the dps output which is frankly underwhelming.

Lowering damage on these ships would take them to something like 320dps with faction fittings and decent skills, it makes one of the most popular ships in the game untenable in PVP and PVE.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1110 - 2012-09-19 09:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Denmark
From my calculations Hurricane could easily be without 400 PG and 50 CPU,
so people only have to worry for now if they have poor fitting skills...

Pinky

And I agree DPS from heavy missiles have never been an issue - As said it's the range combined with solid tank and for the Tengu a ******** 100mn Afterburner easily fitting and permarunning...
Signal11th
#1111 - 2012-09-19 09:19:29 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
and there's barely enough slots to fit a decent tank on most Caldari BS sized ships as it is.

If they gave us extra Mids/Lows to accommodate the modules then you'd have a point, but they aren't so you haven't.

Well, the changes don't really affect BS...


I meant BC. Apologies.



You not heard of the Drake then?? It's the Drake's ungodly tank that has caused some of this mess.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1112 - 2012-09-19 09:19:35 UTC
Webvan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

5 or 6. All of them posting in this topic over how its horrible their Op ships are finally getting a nerf.
Now if you hadn't said "5 or 6" etc, I might have taken your comment seriously, considered it. It's all about trolling, pvp and F* everyone else, eh? wtg, get ccp into a nerf frenzy rather than actually fixing this game. Think it'll be more than 5 or 6 just on that reason alone.


You can go back and look for all of the rage quit posts if you want. It will number around 5-6 with about 10-20 "I want my skillpoints back!".

Now as for the nerfs, in order to balance something the better option is to nerf two things rather than rebalance an entire game around them.
Signal11th
#1113 - 2012-09-19 09:22:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Webvan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

5 or 6. All of them posting in this topic over how its horrible their Op ships are finally getting a nerf.
Now if you hadn't said "5 or 6" etc, I might have taken your comment seriously, considered it. It's all about trolling, pvp and F* everyone else, eh? wtg, get ccp into a nerf frenzy rather than actually fixing this game. Think it'll be more than 5 or 6 just on that reason alone.


You can go back and look for all of the rage quit posts if you want. It will number around 5-6 with about 10-20 "I want my skillpoints back!".

Now as for the nerfs, in order to balance something the better option is to nerf two things rather than rebalance an entire game around them.



And unfortunately this is why CCP knows it can 90% of the time push through any old crap. As as for the nerf yes nerfing two things is better than doing everything so nerf the Drake and the Tengu not everything else that uses HML.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#1114 - 2012-09-19 09:23:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf.
Hey weren't you that guy that was like 14yo or something? Yeah I remember you. But anyhoot, lad, I'm not that same sort, I object to your illogical and irrational generalizations. In fact I don't fly a drake, I don't even use missiles, but I see how wrong this is for all missile boats as it doesn't just effect one or two of them. This has nothing to do with "balance" and only makes things more complicated across the board, even broken, son.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1115 - 2012-09-19 09:29:26 UTC
Kmelx wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Its the missiles causing the problems.


Which is nonsense, my two 100MNAB PVP Tengus (active and a passive tanked one) with lvl 5 sub skills and fours or fives in most missile skills, do about 400dps with faction launchers and BCUs, these are ships that I've spent billions of ISK on.

On there own Tengus are overpowered because of the tanks that you can achieve on them and the fact that the prop mod allows you to achieve high speeds without a corresponding sig radius increase, so you can run away from anyone you can't fight most of the time, not because of the dps output which is frankly underwhelming.

Lowering damage on these ships would take them to something like 320dps with faction fittings and decent skills, it makes one of the most popular ships in the game untenable in PVP and PVE.


You currently get 800+ DPS out of a ratting tengu and the standard tengufleet fit get over 500 DPS. What on earth are you doing to yours?
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#1116 - 2012-09-19 09:32:27 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
now all they have to do is nerf projectiles.


Because it would be unthinkable to have a weapon system that was actually worth using?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Connall Tara
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1117 - 2012-09-19 09:34:17 UTC
yeah... see I don't have problems with this all round. why might you ask? because I HAVE BACON!

http://i.imgur.com/H0cMi.jpg

join with me brothers! revel in the magic of bacon! the wonders of a 30km 600+ dps platform now with the prospect of a tracking computer to improve the hit rate against other targets! get over the whine and embrace the option to fit something else \o/

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr65kfx3aW1qzrafwo1_400.jpg

Naomi Knight - "You must be CCP Rise alt , that would explain everything"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1118 - 2012-09-19 09:34:35 UTC
Webvan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf.
Hey weren't you that guy that was like 14yo or something? Yeah I remember you. But anyhoot, lad, I'm not that same sort, I object to your illogical and irrational generalizations. In fact I don't fly a drake, I don't even use missiles, but I see how wrong this is for all missile boats as it doesn't just effect one or two of them. This has nothing to do with "balance" and only makes things more complicated across the board, even broken, son.


Only if the nano nerf happened well over a decade ago.

Now I do fly missile ships and if you took even the slightest bit of time to look at the base stats of the long range med weapons then you would see that HML are around 25% better ranged and around 20% better at DPS than everything else before ship stats are even applied. But I guess looking at actual stats of these things is harder than trying to talk down to me
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1119 - 2012-09-19 09:36:24 UTC
Signal11th wrote:



And unfortunately this is why CCP knows it can 90% of the time push through any old crap. As as for the nerf yes nerfing two things is better than doing everything so nerf the Drake and the Tengu not everything else that uses HML.


That would leave HML still overpowering the other med long range weapons. The drake and tengu are also going to get a revisit when they get teircided.
Signal11th
#1120 - 2012-09-19 09:36:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Webvan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

We demanded ship balance and thats exactly what they are doing. All of these people you see exploding over the end of the world are all of them the same sort of people who whined about the nano nerf.
Hey weren't you that guy that was like 14yo or something? Yeah I remember you. But anyhoot, lad, I'm not that same sort, I object to your illogical and irrational generalizations. In fact I don't fly a drake, I don't even use missiles, but I see how wrong this is for all missile boats as it doesn't just effect one or two of them. This has nothing to do with "balance" and only makes things more complicated across the board, even broken, son.


Only if the nano nerf happened well over a decade ago.

Now I do fly missile ships and if you took even the slightest bit of time to look at the base stats of the long range med weapons then you would see that HML are around 25% better ranged and around 20% better at DPS than everything else before ship stats are even applied. But I guess looking at actual stats of these things is harder than trying to talk down to me



Not that I agree with his agrument but I do agree that his age shouldn;t really have any bearing on his argument.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!