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[RETRACTED]Denouncement of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
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Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-09-19 01:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
EDIT:

Retracted after discussion and reconsideration.

~Malcolm Khross
Violca Kari
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-09-19 01:59:16 UTC
Well.

This is distressing.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#3 - 2012-09-19 02:09:22 UTC
I don't really see why did this call for an IGS post.

If you're not capable of policing your own creation, mr. Khross, don't come weeping to public in a hope that we might.
It's just three ships lost, and we don't have any details on them. Can't really say they're completely innocent and not pirates themselves, can we?

I think jumping to quick conclusions is never a good idea.

As for this part:

Quote:
Flying in league with known pirate organizations


You use that phrase a lot. I'm afraid it not might mean what you think it means.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Jurou Yuan
Wolfraam 74
#4 - 2012-09-19 02:11:45 UTC
Mal is fairly quick to call others pirates.

It's like he has some kind of issue with them.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-09-19 02:20:10 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
I don't really see why did this call for an IGS post.

If you're not capable of policing your own creation, mr. Khross, don't come weeping to public in a hope that we might.
It's just three ships lost, and we don't have any details on them. Can't really say they're completely innocent and not pirates themselves, can we?


The post is nothing more than a public distancing between myself and the Honor Guard as some people still seem to consider me a part of it. It is no longer under my leadership nor subject to my expectations and guidelines, they are completely at the behest of its current leadership.

Secondly, you can research quite a significant amount of information pertaining to the lost vessels.

Jurou Yuan wrote:

Mal is fairly quick to call others pirates.

It's like he has some kind of issue with them.


I do have an issue with them. I always have.

~Malcolm Khross
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#6 - 2012-09-19 02:35:08 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Leopold Caine wrote:

The post is nothing more than a public distancing between myself and the Honor Guard as some people still seem to consider me a part of it. It is no longer under my leadership nor subject to my expectations and guidelines, they are completely at the behest of its current leadership.


Funny, I didn't get that notion. It seemed more like you're trying to brand your former associates as pirates all of a sudden. I'm aware the Caldari corporate politics are much more complex than a simple holder like myself could fathom, so I won't go any deeper to your sudden change of allegience.


[quote]

Secondly, you can research quite a significant amount of information pertaining to the lost vessels.




So far it has only been your words about a supposed kill of a ... Viator, Mammoth and... something third. That doesn't give me much information.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#7 - 2012-09-19 03:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Unit XS365BT
The original message was quite clear pilot Caine.

The original Directives of the WHG corporation as set in place by it's creator have been recinded by current leadership.

Instances of aggression against unarmed salvage and industrial vessels by current WHG leadership and members have been noted.

Pilot Khross has simply stated, on public record, that these acts were performed without his prior knowledge or consent and that he does not agree with the current activities of the WHG corporation.

Furthermore, unprovoked attacks of aggression against unarmed vessels are one instance of an activity that is termed Piracy by the empires. That the activities took place within zero security space does not negate this fact, it merely ensures that CONCORD do not interfere.

We Return

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#8 - 2012-09-19 03:28:51 UTC
The original message made a lot of assumptions and claims about destroyed ships, not telling us where they are or giving us any context on what they were doing.

Sans context, I can't say those ships weren't part of a larger pirate armada or something like that.
If the whole killing part is to be believed, really.

So until a Wyirkomi Honour Guard representative appears openly admitting mr. Khross' claims, I'll take my liberty of supposing this is some kind of a caldari corporate takeover spin, as usual.

Occam's razor, my dear.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#9 - 2012-09-19 03:41:09 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Had these entities been within State sovereign space or the war zone between the State and the Federation and near military complexes or engaging in hostile action within this area, it would have been within the Honor Guard's operational parameters to engage. Instead, the Honor Guard invaded non-State space with the express purpose of engaging in military action against entities therein regardless of their affiliation, standings toward the State and WHG or their ability to defend themselves.

Look at the losses you point to as being piracy.

They are all enemies of the Fourth District. Their alliances are members of coalitions that raid the District. Red Overlord, AAA both raid Providence and attack unaffiliated miners and traders as well as Providence's residents. They are hostile to the interest of Caldari in Providence.

If WHG's current leadership can learn from engaging enemies of The Fourth District on their home ground, all the better. It benefits civilized society and their fellow Caldari, even if it is far from the State.

Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Burning Skies
Apocalypse Now.
#10 - 2012-09-19 04:08:06 UTC
While the shipkills in question do show that they were involved in kills with known-quantity pirates, I must agree with the point that all three listed victims were members of entities hostile to all parties in nearby Providence - Amarr, Caldari or otherwise unaligned. Time will tell, however, if they plan to choose targets other than such hostile entities.
Jev North
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-09-19 07:46:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jev North
Leopold Caine wrote:
Sans context, I can't say those ships weren't part of a larger pirate armada or something like that.
If the whole killing part is to be believed, really.

Confirming that the ANSH invasion fleet is slowly but steadily massing in dark space, waiting for the invention of the Hull Miner I and Intact Ship Salvager I.

You seem to be very good at playing dumb, Mr. Caine. I assume it's in large part natural talent.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#12 - 2012-09-19 08:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Leopold Caine
((OOC ))

CCP Spitfire wrote:
Killmails & Killboards

Posting killmails, killboard links or screenshots of killboards will be considered as trolling or off-topic, and subject to removal or warning.


((/OOC))
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Solarienne
Hrimdraugar
#13 - 2012-09-19 10:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Solarienne
As stated by our honored allies from the Fourth District and beyond, these training operations, whilst conducted under the auspices of some contacts of mine with more mercenary predilections than WHG, were performed in a state of ROE enforcement, with WHG members expressly forbidden from engaging invalid (by standing, not classification of hull) targets. ROE has been upheld and no diplomatic incidents have occurred. Indeed, it seems Fourth is happy with the coincidental prevention of hostiles being allowed to roam their space.

You seem to misunderstand, Khross, your station in present times. Naivete, a misunderstanding of the dangers that 'materiel gathering craft' such as these pose by indirectly funding the combat inclinations of affiliated capsuleer enemies of the State and a new found love of airing your dirty laundry all paint a more revealing picture of you than your ill-thought tirade does of us. I made the call to revisit some old contacts and train WHG pilots in 'special operations tactics' involving Stealth Bomber craft. I endorse overwhelming odds in training scenarios to ensure that pilots develop their skills in an environment that stimulates morale, so long as they know that we will fly alone in the future, in much harsher conditions. I'd also endorse every WHG pilot re-purposing a terrestrial mass with shallow graves filled with the bodies of those without the will or wit to persecute the enemies of the State to the ends of this cluster, you included. My responsibility for these actions and assertions is writ large in my personal, considerable star ship losses in the line of duty, those who live by the sword die by the sword - we just have the luxury of learning from the experience.

You're a disgrace to the uniform Khross, your jealousy writ large and your pettiness incalculable. You had a chance to get back into the fold, you were missed even. But clearly your loyalty to enemies of the State and mythical ROE standards are greater than your ties to brothers and sisters in arms. And here I was thinking those suits in Wiyrkomi had nothing on you...

PY-RE Combat Pilot
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-09-19 11:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
Solarienne wrote:

I made the call to revisit some old contacts and train WHG pilots in 'special operations tactics' involving Stealth Bomber craft. I endorse overwhelming odds in training scenarios to ensure that pilots develop their skills in an environment that stimulates morale, so long as they know that we will fly alone in the future, in much harsher conditions. I'd also endorse every WHG pilot re-purposing a terrestrial mass with shallow graves filled with the bodies of those without the will or wit to persecute the enemies of the State to the ends of this cluster, you included. My responsibility for these actions and assertions is writ large in my personal, considerable star ship losses in the line of duty, those who live by the sword die by the sword - we just have the luxury of learning from the experience.


Herein lies what I was pointing to and the person I was pointing out. You endorse wholesale slaughter and devastation casually and claim that you have the will and wit to defend the State. If you cannot defend your home and culture without sinking into inhumanity and massacre then you shouldn't be serving in that capacity. You have a choice to hold yourself to a higher standard, to avoid such blatant acts of destruction and slaughter and be above reproach in the defense of State.

It is where you and I differ. I will never consider the massacre of a planetary population to be justified nor of a planetary populations' scale of people for simple training exercises.

Solarienne wrote:
You're a disgrace to the uniform Khross, your jealousy writ large and your pettiness incalculable. You had a chance to get back into the fold, you were missed even. But clearly your loyalty to enemies of the State and mythical ROE standards are greater than your ties to brothers and sisters in arms. And here I was thinking those suits in Wiyrkomi had nothing on you...


A disgrace to the uniform because I refuse to compromise my objectives and standpoints? I'll keep that in note.

This has absolutely nothing to do with jealousy. Indeed, I have full confidence in the continued capability and leadership of Desiderya Kyiokkinen to perform as her duty demands and I bear no ill toward her or toward the pilots of WHG. WHG has shifted its focus from when I was in command over it and as I am, for some reason, still held to account for WHG even when not being a part of it, it was necessary for me to clearly explain that the activities currently undergone by WHG were not of my making.

Rumors seem to place me as having been on some secret mission for Wiyrkomi during my absence, which again is also false. It is noted clearly here that I have nothing to do with Wiyrkomi Honor Guard's current objectives and activities and refuse to be held to account for them. Nothing more and nothing less.

The Honor Guard and its leadership are quite comfortable with their current operations and have expressed that they are well within the current operating parameters of the unit, which is fully acceptable.

What you don't understand Solarienne, is that Kyiokkinen and I have already spoken a number of times since my reinstatement to service and my point of contention has never been with her, in fact I have spoken highly of her leadership even when I have disagreed with certain areas of it (such as this one). I have never expressed a desire to return to leadership over WHG as you seem to suggest is my underlying desire. I would happily return to service in the Honor Guard assuming I could do so in good conscience.

~Malcolm Khross
Solarienne
Hrimdraugar
#15 - 2012-09-19 11:11:15 UTC
And yet you feel the need to come to a public venue and act like you're **** of the walk, a cut above.

Distance yourself all you like 'Mal', you asked for an organisation that could uphold State values and protect our way of life and that is exactly what we became. It might be hard to see from up there on your high horse, but I'll be here waiting when someone drags you screaming from it's back.

I am sure my superiors will see your tin-rattling missive soon enough, so I will sign out with just this to say: you better keep hiding behind STPRO colors 'Mal' - after all I respect our ROE.

PY-RE Combat Pilot
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-09-19 11:17:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
EDIT:

I admit that I have handled this poorly in making it public in the tone and manner in which I did.

I admit secondly that it was borne in part due to my frustration with the current direction of the Honor Guard, an entity that I have no control over any longer.

While it is a bit late at this venture due to my own rash action and lack of forethought:

I extend an apology to the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard and its current leadership for my disgraceful handling of this situation. I further apologize to Solarienne for words spoken in anger rather than constructively.

It was beyond my place to respond as I have done and I have dishonored the Honor Guard and its leadership with my public accusations and instigation. This could have been handled better but I chose the child's path.

~Malcolm Khross
Jev North
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-09-19 11:38:57 UTC
From where I'm standing, the only important thing you've handled poorly is recruitment.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-09-19 11:43:40 UTC
ROE based on hull types?
Really?
*whistles and undocks BattleBadger*

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-09-19 11:54:10 UTC
I stand by my assertion that recent activity was a violation to the spirit and ROE of the Honor Guard as it existed under my command, and in its original formation.

However, the Honor Guard is no longer under my command and challenging its current operations and engagements was handled privately initially before being made public. Current leadership expressed approval of the operations in light of the necessity of training the Honor Guard for specific operations.

Words spoken by Solarienne in approving mass genocide for the State highlight my particular point of contention with the activities of the Honor Guard, it is a step toward a very dangerous mindset, one that I have carefully tried to warn against time and again by those pilots serving the State in a combat capacity.

In reference to Nederland-haan: I understand and accept your point. Had these activities taken place beside pilots of the Fourth District, it could be seen and accepted as a joint operation between the two, with the Fourth overseeing operations against its enemies. Instead, these activities took place under the guidance of non-State entities. The destruction of non-combat vessels has always been against the Honor Guard's ROE, expressly so.

In the end, it is no doubt that I could have handled this situation more appropriately, but it is also no doubt that the situation is tenuous, at best. I express again that I have full confidence in the leadership of Desiderya Kyiokkinen-haani and this disagreement between us is not borne of malice or hostility.

~Malcolm Khross
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-09-19 11:57:26 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
ROE based on hull types?
Really?
*whistles and undocks BattleBadger*


No. ROE based on ship capability and function.

An unarmed vessel is incapable of defending itself from military action and should be engaged as such. It's akin to destroying residential or commercial assets with military grade weaponry while wearing the uniform of the military.

~Malcolm Khross
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