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HEAVY MISSILES NERFED, switch to assault heavy missiles?
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Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#1 - 2012-09-18 22:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Almost finnished training the Tengu, and suddenly I see CCP Fozzie announcing Heavy Missiles will be nerfed Ughhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

Will people switch to Heavy Assault Missiles for the Tengu and Drake (the Assaults will not be rebalanced in the winter Expansion), or is it something thats just not done? I'm fairly new to these ships, that's all.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-09-18 22:51:06 UTC
this change is stupid and will never ever go live like that.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Ginger Barbarella
#3 - 2012-09-18 22:55:03 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Almost finnished training the Tengu, and suddenly I see CCP Fozzie announcing Heavy Missiles will be nerfed Ughhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

Will people switch to Heavy Assault Missiles for the Tengu and Drake (the Assaults will not be rebalanced in the winter Expansion), or is it something thats just not done? I'm fairly new to these ships, that's all.


There's another thread about this topic, might want to give it a look.

I personally won't go HAM if the changes noted in the post happen. Probably give up on anything over Rocket-sized, shift over to Projectile or lazors on my alts instead.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-09-18 23:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
"CCP Fozzie" wrote:
Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)


Heavy missiles go faster, hit harder, T2 ammo ship penalties are getting removed, and all at the cost of a 30% reduction in flight time combined with tracking computers/enhancers becoming rDPS->eDPS conversion modules just as they are for guns.

Did I miss the nerf or are people just focusing on the range of heavy missiles going from around 80km to 60km to the exclusion of all else?

Edit: Please note that the "hit harder" was incorrect as I read "increase" and not "decrease" damage. However with the changes to tracking computers/enhancers whether or not they do the same effective DPS as they do now will be up for debate.
Illest Insurrectionist
Sparta.
#5 - 2012-09-18 23:25:56 UTC
Shereza wrote:
"CCP Fozzie" wrote:
Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)


Heavy missiles go faster, hit harder, T2 ammo ship penalties are getting removed, and all at the cost of a 30% reduction in flight time combined with tracking computers/enhancers becoming rDPS->eDPS conversion modules just as they are for guns.

Did I miss the nerf or are people just focusing on the range of heavy missiles going from around 80km to 60km to the exclusion of all else?


Uhhh i guess you're trolling.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#6 - 2012-09-19 00:29:56 UTC
Ok, so are people gonna switch to assault missiles for their cruiser and battle cruisers?

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-09-19 00:34:34 UTC
Shereza wrote:
"CCP Fozzie" wrote:
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)


Heavy missiles...hit harder


LOLWUT?

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#8 - 2012-09-19 00:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasutra
Was heavy missiles' base damage a problem? What?

Also, nothing about torp range or cruise missile base damage? Sad
EDIT: Derp, battleship weapons to be addressed later, got it...
stoicfaux
#9 - 2012-09-19 01:00:20 UTC
Quote:
Fury: Increase damage, increase the severity of penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly


I'm guessing that means Fury missile damage will be reduced by less than 20%.

As for HAMs, I think that Fury will still do more DPS than T1 HAMs and since Rage HAMs will have their range reduced, HML DPS will outdo HAM DPS due to range (i.e, the HMLs will be doing damage while the HAM guy is still trying to get in range.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#10 - 2012-09-19 01:24:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The meat of this thread however is about missiles. There's a number of missile changes we have planned for the Winter, including the already announced buff to light missiles, a nerf to heavy missile range and damage to put them in line with other long range cruiser weapons, a rework of all T2 missiles so they become usable, and the expansion of both tracking enhancers and tracking disruptors into the realm of missiles.

All Missiles
Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.

Light Missiles
-Explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we'll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Improve bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase the severity of penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and increases explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time


If you actually read the whole post instead of just a couple of lines, it seems to be a mix of buff / nerfs for missiles. Certainly interesting if nothing else. I'll be interested to see how it turns out (feedback from people on test).

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-09-19 01:37:23 UTC
Illest Insurrectionist wrote:
Uhhh i guess you're trolling.


Or I read increaed instead of decreased. I did ask if I missed the nerf, which I did. /shrugs.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-09-19 01:48:27 UTC
I don't think HAM's will be all that useful even with the buff.

You're still talking about ~30km range on a drake with 2 TEs. Because of the way missiles work that will effectively be 25km or so. Javelins will go to 45 or so, but with similar DPS to current HML drakes. In other words a HAM drake will do okay to good damage to 25km, and mediocre damage to 45 after a reload.

Essentially drakes and tengus will be removed from small gangs as a kiting option. I'd expect to see most smallish gangs switching to tier 3 battlecruisers or arty hurricanes. Since you don't need t2 guns for canes or tornados, and since drakes will present much less of a threat to cynabals and vagas, we'll probably be back to minmatar online.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-09-19 03:51:01 UTC
TDs .... TDs everywhere .... Atleast 1 per ship from now on.

Mining barge or titan it dont matter ... TD it !
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2012-09-19 04:04:03 UTC
Smabs wrote:
You're still talking about ~30km range on a drake with 2 TEs. Because of the way missiles work that will effectively be 25km or so.


Did you notice the part where they're changing the acceleration curve as well?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it looks like we'll be getting much closer to listed range. Provided all of this goes through, etc.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-09-19 04:12:23 UTC
Oh right. That might help a bit. Right now with HAMs you have to be in scram range to really apply any damage, especially if your enemy is trying to fly directly away from you.

Still, even with the changes it's pretty short range and having 2 TE means you have to sacrifice damage, tank or speed to get it to work.
Mutant Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-09-19 04:23:22 UTC
Now instead of doing 862 DPS at 114km, you'll be doing 689 at 85 in a Tengu. Oh and the Drake is rumored to be getting dual DPS bonuses so...yeah. It most likely will still do the same DPS as it currently does, just at a slightly less range(Until you take into account TEs and TCs). Oh and not to mention the fact that Furies are getting a DPS boost. Lol
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-09-19 04:52:51 UTC
So missile boats will have to add TEs with BCUs with their anemic slot layout?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#18 - 2012-09-19 04:55:57 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
So missile boats will have to add TEs with BCUs with their anemic slot layout?


Or TCs. Your choice.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-09-19 04:59:52 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
So missile boats will have to add TEs with BCUs with their anemic slot layout?


Or TCs. Your choice.

I hear ya. Genuine question since you seem to know your way around fitting ships: I usually run TPs in my mids, so does this mean I have to choose between TPs or TCs? Or am I being a noob and missing something?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2012-09-19 05:27:20 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
So missile boats will have to add TEs with BCUs with their anemic slot layout?


Or TCs. Your choice.

I hear ya. Genuine question since you seem to know your way around fitting ships: I usually run TPs in my mids, so does this mean I have to choose between TPs or TCs? Or am I being a noob and missing something?


We don't know yet, basically. But my read so far is that TCs are going to be all around better. Not only do they effect everything and not just a specific target for 10 seconds, they can also either increase range or damage application.

This is actually sounding like all kinds of awesome. Rather than cycling painters, which is hellishly boring and micro-managey, you get the same choices you would on a proper gun boat and only have to fiddle with the module when you need another option. Now, if we could just get them to script omnis I'll be ridiculously happy....
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