Jita Park Speakers Corner

Of course. Beware your hyperbole.

And listened. Not particularly frank at all. "People, some CSMers don't do jack ****." The only names mentioned are the EASY ones, Issler and Darius.

If you want to be incredibly frank, then start throwing some of these jackasses under the bus. These people will likely run next year. Start burning their bridge now.

EDIT #1: Just wait ... 1:11:26, one of the hosts asks the CSMers how they feel each and every CSM member, by name, is performing ... will this be the "incredible frankness"?

EDIT #2: Hans starts gagging on his own vomit, the thought of saying anything potentially bad about anyone making him physically and violently ill. Incredible frankness might not be in the cards, unless Hans can grow some testicles.

EDIT #3: The lame-ass hosts help to deflect the original question so that speaking function can return to Hans and Seleene. Oh, one sec, looks like the hosts might be returning to the individual candidates question again.

EDIT #4: Nope ... hosts are making it easy on them again. They get to just state a number. No names.

EDIT #5: Turns out to be the disappointment I expected it to be. They do get to commenting about individual members. Whenever Hans or Seleene have to pause silently for three to five seconds while considering a member, you know right there that member should not be back on CSM8.

No one enjoyed the interview with mactalu as well?

And yes that was incredibly long, I never knew the full length when I listened to it all, wow. Thank god I was set up for AFKing missions.

Poetic and snow Axe, should do their own podcast, so they can ask questions they are interested in. (Would say contact the podcast people beforehand, but it seems like its a surprise who is coming on a podcast, so be hard to)

I know the six people.

But I pay attention. Come election time, people are going to need guidance, from those with first-hand knowledge, who to re-elect and who should not be re-elected. I don't want to see any of these particular asshats back on CSM8.

Fair enough. I shall hold you to that, Mr. Optimist.

Cyanide and Happiness are always so topical.

I think this comic sums up quite nicely my feelings on this two-hour podcast.

All I have to say, Is that I was a bit disgusted by the CSM minutes awhile back, where this all came out in the open so far as I am aware. In-fighting in the CSM or any other Council is bound to end up nowhere good.

Generally speaking Poe, I haven't had any issue with your posts or blogs and I sort of understand where you're going with them. There is far too much willingness to point fingers, name names, and flog people around here though. Tensions are high enough by all appearances and I think a fair few misconceptions, (not uncommon in EVE), are flying around.

Sometimes it's easy to be misunderstood.

Clarify: For Seleene and Hans sake, I think the issue with not naming people is that it is inappropriate and damaging to publicly air other peoples laundry. There is also another thing to consider, in that the other members of the CSM are probably doing what they were asked, with exception to D3, who is also taking his own peculiar initiative that seems to indicate he isn't taking the CSM seriously at this time.

So the real issue is more likely that the CSM members are at odds with each other, to the extent where they can't work together effectively, and the at least subconsciously or silently acknowledge that while deflecting blame. That isn't going to solve any problems, but at least it isn't likely to create any more.

There is also no shame there. Not everybody gets along all the time, and some people are just naturally at odds with other people. Rubbed the wrong way, diametric opposition.. whatever. It's no surprise Issler doesn't speak much either, being representative of the industrial player-base. Remaining silent when your opinions are going to be confrontational to others isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes, it is the only thing you can do and still remain a part of the equation.

I've been there myself. Silently watching my corp mates increasing PvP activity beyond defensive PvP, to aggressive actions, and finally to the point of ganking people without regard or consideration. Simply because they were there. Obviously, I don't agree with it, but you can't demand people stop playing a game the way they want to play it. All you can do is limit your own participation to those activities which you don't disagree with.

Not quite the same as CSM, but it is still representative of social interaction with a group of people with whom you share common interests and goals. For a time at least. In the CSMs case, this common interest is the improvement of gameplay for all involved, and yet one persons idea of an improvement may not be the same as anothers, and so we have conflict.

For your part Poe, I believe you are trying to expose the conflict within the CSM because of your own interest in EVE and seeing it improve, and yet, you may not be doing anyone any favors in doing so. There is a delicate balance to the CSM for now, and this year has already seen its share of mishaps both within and around the CSM, and some tragedy too.

Tension is a potential breaking point. Don't be so eager to push the situation lest it reach the limitations of its design. I think you'll find that they, (the CSM), do well enough, and some things are better left unsaid, while laying the issue quietly to rest. Poke about as you will, but go easy on them.

The CSM are seeing increasing expectations on their time, and there is more than enough on their collective table without adding unnecessarily to that workload, or increasing the tension and conflict between them. People are sensitive enough as it is, and I feel there are some raw nerves around to be trod on.

Cheers,

I think he already is, or at least running a campaign for someone to step into later.

While I have significantly more respect for the current CSM than Mr Courthouse appears to, I think he has a point.

You guys seem to get in your own way a lot. I hear a lot "we shouldn't be...", "its not our job..."

Please get past that.

We need you to help CCP make the game better, and not misstep.

You need to spend less time calming people down when they are reacting to the trial balloons sent up by CCP. That is the time to get vocal and let CCP know its not a good idea. Not later when its already on the test servers... or worse on TQ. If you all come and say "well greyscale (or whomever) just said that as an offhand comment, it'll never really happen, stop being drama llamas", then CCP doesn't get to hear the reaction. Later on they do it, and wonder why people get so upset.

Bad trial balloons need to be shot down as quickly and permanently as possible.

I know it is great to get to know the devs and be all friends, but it is necessary for your function to be able to not only tell them when they are going astray, but be able to rally the troops when they aren't listening.

At least that's my personal perception of what the CSM could be... should be.