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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#741 - 2012-09-18 22:58:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
I think the Drake and HML changes are ********. Really not impressed.

An option to refund SPs now wasted in Missiles would seem appropriate.


No SP refund for you. Learn to adapt like everyone else.


No. I'll ******* moan until CCP realise they are stupid and leave things as they are.

QQ, cry more blah blah blah.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#742 - 2012-09-18 22:59:28 UTC
Thash Hirarashi wrote:
I recently just trained for a tengu. If these changes are implemented, can I get sp refunded?


Sure. Just send the 500 million ISK skill refunding fee to me, and I will be happy to refund your SP.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#743 - 2012-09-18 23:00:07 UTC
Laura Dexx wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
T's little helper wrote:
Heavy missiles are already the weakest weapon, lowest damage, significant delay between launch and hit, low rate of fire.
If heavy missiles are too powerful on cruisers, then adjust the cruiser hulls, not the missiles or their launchers.
Can also agree on nighthawk, it has needed a boost for a VERY long time now. Changing misiles this much to the worse will have a dramatic effect on an already suffering ship, so if this change will ever happen, the nighthawk need extreme bonuses the very same day this change goes active.


I'm sorry, did you just say that Heavy Missiles are the weakest weapon system? And you said it with a straight face?

LolLolLolLolLol

-Liang


while not exactly the weakest, heavy missiles in and of themselves are far from strong. to see this, just compare HML ships to similar hulls:
caracal vs. rupture. cerberus (lol) vs ishtar or vagabond. nighthawk vs sleipnir etc.


If you really want fair engagements:

Put a HM caracal up against a arty rupture. Good luck even fitting four arties to a rupture.
Rail warden ishtar against HM cerb? Cerb wins without contest.
Arty vagabond? Are you kidding me?
Arty sleip vs HM NH? That'd be a pretty even fight.

If you're going to compare ships, compare them using the RIGHT weapon types.


who says the RIGHT weapon type is the long range type? to me, it is rather the type that works best with the respective hull. just as you can't fit arties on a rupture, you can't really fit HAMs on a caracal.
please keep in mind, the thing that ultimately has to be balanced are not numbers (range, dps etc.) or 1v1 fights but the overall performance of the ships.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#744 - 2012-09-18 23:00:18 UTC
Awesome!
Salmon Ella
Exolon Trading
#745 - 2012-09-18 23:00:50 UTC
Seleene wrote:


Grath Tekllin for CSM 8.



Why does he talk as much shite as the rest of you do? If so I'm a voting.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#746 - 2012-09-18 23:01:40 UTC
Asmodes Reynolds wrote:
confirming that ccp is to incompetent to balance their game properly, instead of having unique in vastly different mechanics for their weapons systems and tanking modules to make the game exciting and engaging, where the meta-game is constantly changing and they have decided to make every tanking type, and every weapons system at virtually the same. .


A couple patches back in Inferno, they wanted to change shield/armor function virtually the same. Favoring passive/active changing as your choice. Needless to say that's a very bad idea. They started by trying to change the rigs. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99872 ( CCP bouncing ideas, are as close to good , as fire is to ice .because none of them actually play it again besides missioning/mining in high-sec ).

Now they're trying to change missiles to match the turret-based weapons, claiming that it'll make it easier for new players.. all it will do is dumbed down eve even more. It is gotten so bad that there is very little difference between the races, Beyond what slots they used to tank, and what flavor of gun they put in their high slots. well I admit there is problems with most of the missile boats in the game at the moment I think that is more wrong with ships themselves than the actual missile mechanic.

what is going to make this thing easier for new players, is more mechanics built in that facilitates experienced players teaching the new players. Here's some ideas off the top of my head. Reworking the certificate system so that players, make and share certificates among the corporation mates and their alliance mates easily. The certificates could be used for anything such as an easy to look up new player training plan. All the way up to figuring out if you have enough skills to qualify for reimbursement on a particular ship.

Because God knows none of the CCP staff are qualified to teach someone how to properly fit a ship or the skills required to properly fitted anymore. I'm going to hazard a guess and say no CCP dev is playing the way the average player does since the T2 lottery scandal. THE FACT THAT NO Dev plays the game the way the majority of pvper play. They have no clue about balancing past they care bearing in hisec.

so I urge you to put new player training in the hands of current players and give usThe tools to do it. Instead of dumbing down eve to the lowest of dominator


I want your space-babies.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#747 - 2012-09-18 23:03:02 UTC
Ah well, guess I'll stock TD's, queue that last tier of marketing, wait for the right time to contract 80% of my useless t2 and missile boat fleet, and wait for WiS to launch before I ever get out of CQ again (not that I want WiS or even use CQ until now). Park my butt in hisec. I guess some gw2 time between now and then is my only viable option. Hope they change their path before my current sub year is up.

—Ω—
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#748 - 2012-09-18 23:03:12 UTC
Yeah, HAM tengus are already decent for missions and can gain some pretty good range, with the option of TE and TCs you'd get ALOT more range/damage application.

6 slots for L4 tank is too much, I've always run with T2 AB + Pithi C-Type Small + 2 T2 Hardeners and my tank has never even been in danger, some missions need care like Mordus Headhunters cause of tons of webbers on top of you but even then.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#749 - 2012-09-18 23:03:16 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:


No. I'll ******* moan until CCP realise they are stupid and leave things as they are.

QQ, cry more blah blah blah.


Whats stupid is a cruiser with a BS tank, the range of a sniper and the DPS of a brawler BC.

This nerf should have happened years ago.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#750 - 2012-09-18 23:04:01 UTC
Two step wrote:
Thash Hirarashi wrote:
I recently just trained for a tengu. If these changes are implemented, can I get sp refunded?


Sure. Just send the 500 million ISK skill refunding fee to me, and I will be happy to refund your SP.

w
how about a fist full of rusty corncob holders where the sun dont shine?

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
School Nickname Worldmonkey
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#751 - 2012-09-18 23:06:07 UTC
Welp. A proposition CCP. Make all Gurista rats orbit at ~20-25k and I'll forget this whole thing ever happened. HelI I might even train gallente to compensate you! Or at least T2 Blasters.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#752 - 2012-09-18 23:08:30 UTC
School Nickname Worldmonkey wrote:
Welp. A proposition CCP. Make all Gurista rats orbit at ~20-25k and I'll forget this whole thing ever happened. HelI I might even train gallente to compensate you! Or at least T2 Blasters.


what about EOM and other LONG RANGE rats? :P

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Laura Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#753 - 2012-09-18 23:10:10 UTC
School Nickname Worldmonkey wrote:
Welp. A proposition CCP. Make all Gurista rats orbit at ~20-25k and I'll forget this whole thing ever happened. HelI I might even train gallente to compensate you! Or at least T2 Blasters.


Or start using battleships like it was intended. If you're that dead set on using a cruiser, you're going to have to deal with having to get in range like all the other cruisers do.
James1122
Perimeter Trade and Distribution Inc
#754 - 2012-09-18 23:10:26 UTC
These changes are awesome and will bring much needed balance to alot of game play. (especially when combined with the other medium guns changes) Please do not listen to the knee jerk whinners.

....
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#755 - 2012-09-18 23:10:42 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
Two step wrote:
Thash Hirarashi wrote:
I recently just trained for a tengu. If these changes are implemented, can I get sp refunded?


Sure. Just send the 500 million ISK skill refunding fee to me, and I will be happy to refund your SP.

w
how about a fist full of rusty corncob holders where the sun dont shine?


I'll sell those to you for 500 million ISK.

That or keep demanding for a SP refund, it's really entertaining for most of us to see people flailing around ITT when they're too short-sighted to make the best of these changes and instead resort to stomping their feet like self-entitled children.

No sig.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#756 - 2012-09-18 23:11:00 UTC
The nerf to heavy missiles is about time, but you seriously can't fix 1/2 the missiles and not the others. How about a range and explosive velocity/radius buff to HAMs and Torps (hams velocity, torps need both)? Does the fact that they have practically the same range not bother you in the least? Why are you doing 1/2 the job?

Hams are supposed to be cruiser sized weapons, yet the average cruiser takes less than full damage against them due to their slow explosion velocity (and you're even buffing base cruiser speed - nice job). Torps are supposed to be battleship weapons, yet suffer in both the explosion velocity and radius. They both need their base range increased (congratz on having the only cruiser and battleship sized weapons with the same range) by 50 to 100% on unbonused ships (like the Sac and the Phoon) which are obviously suppose to use them. Feel free to nerf the range bonus on other ships to balance this out.

Nerfing heavy missiles is fine, but not giving missile based ships an other option (i.e. usable hams) further puts missile ships in the dustbin.

The reduction in PG on cruiser artillery has huge consequences, ones I'm not sure are so good for all ships. However if you're thinking this change will make the Muninn useful, that won't happen w/o a layout change, as far as nerfing the cane, meh, I still prefer the harb.
James Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#757 - 2012-09-18 23:11:08 UTC
Roime wrote:
Schmell wrote:
Uhm...cough...did you check on armor cane fittings when you were working out that PG nerf? Because armor cane will be hit really hard by this, there wasn't so much free pg left even with 220mm guns

Aside this, pretty cool changes


1600mm + 220 IIs + Medium Neut IIs + MWD II without a single fitting mod is tight for you?

1600mm + 425 IIs + HML IIs + meta MWD also too tight?

Do you need to have free PG left even with all slots filled?

These minmatards Ugh


so after the change an armor cane with 1600mm meta plate + 180 IIs + meta medium nuets + meta MWD is going to be 5% PG over with perfect skills?

smallest guns and meta the rest of my mods and i still need a fitting rig or implant to fly an armor cane?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#758 - 2012-09-18 23:11:24 UTC
Laura Dexx wrote:
School Nickname Worldmonkey wrote:
Welp. A proposition CCP. Make all Gurista rats orbit at ~20-25k and I'll forget this whole thing ever happened. HelI I might even train gallente to compensate you! Or at least T2 Blasters.


Or start using battleships like it was intended. If you're that dead set on using a cruiser, you're going to have to deal with having to get in range like all the other cruisers do.

Except the Tengu isn't strictly a cruiser.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#759 - 2012-09-18 23:12:03 UTC
Laura Dexx wrote:
School Nickname Worldmonkey wrote:
Welp. A proposition CCP. Make all Gurista rats orbit at ~20-25k and I'll forget this whole thing ever happened. HelI I might even train gallente to compensate you! Or at least T2 Blasters.


Or start using battleships like it was intended. If you're that dead set on using a cruiser, you're going to have to deal with having to get in range like all the other cruisers do.

confirming that a sandbox game must follow rigid boring rules with no exceptions.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Laura Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#760 - 2012-09-18 23:14:44 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Laura Dexx wrote:
School Nickname Worldmonkey wrote:
Welp. A proposition CCP. Make all Gurista rats orbit at ~20-25k and I'll forget this whole thing ever happened. HelI I might even train gallente to compensate you! Or at least T2 Blasters.


Or start using battleships like it was intended. If you're that dead set on using a cruiser, you're going to have to deal with having to get in range like all the other cruisers do.

confirming that a sandbox game must follow rigid boring rules with no exceptions.


It's not because it's as agile as a frigate, as tanky as a battleship and as offensively capable as a battlecruiser that it isn't a cruiser-class ship using cruiser-class weapons. You're a ******* idiot. Go stick it to 'the man' somewhere else.