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[Winter] Attack Cruisers

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Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2012-09-18 20:28:38 UTC
Quad Beams were stillborns.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-09-18 20:31:51 UTC
Stabber: CCP give the Stabber more drones, im thinking 4 lights. drop a high and about 20ms. and giv eit another turet. the stabber may be getting a low, but its doign no more base dps than the curent one. Even if it kites all day it will have to tickle the other ship to death. Is silly that the Belicose will do more dps than the attack cruiser.

Thorax: The Thorax looks nice, tho i think you just made them 80% more likely to be shield tanked, like a mini Talos. tho armor tanked with 2 webs and trackign bonus frigs will die quick.

Carical: better, but instead of a velocity bonus how about a base missle tracking bonus

Omen: im really looking forward to seeinghow the omen works now, dose remind me of a mini geddon afterall.

Over all great but please fix that poor stabber.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#163 - 2012-09-18 20:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcel Devereux
Liang Nuren wrote:

Wow, that Throax is gonna be awesome. The 4th mid combined with the extra CPU is going to let me fit an actual tank to the damn thing. Fantastic!

-Liang


You mean you can fit a shield tank on it. This is meant to be a armor tanked ship.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#164 - 2012-09-18 20:38:35 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Quad Beams were stillborns.


Fixed the OP

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#165 - 2012-09-18 20:42:52 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

Wow, that Throax is gonna be awesome. The 4th mid combined with the extra CPU is going to let me fit an actual tank to the damn thing. Fantastic!

-Liang


You mean you can fit a shield tank on it. This is meant to be a armor tanked ship.


Only an idiot armor tanks anything but capitals and perhaps battleships these days. Buffing the shield tanking capability of the Thorax is amazing! It'll be so much more powerful than if they left it with 3 mids like they did the Omen! :D

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2012-09-18 20:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Quad Beams were stillborns.


Fixed the OP


Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless.

Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused.

On the frigate level, there are 3 tiers of pulse lasers and 2 tiers of beam lasers.

On the cruiser & battleship level, there are 2 tiers of pulse lasers and 3 tiers of beam lasers and basically nobody uses the low tier beam laser (Quad Beam and Dual Heavy Beam).
Lili Lu
#167 - 2012-09-18 21:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Quad Beams were stillborns.


Fixed the OP


Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless.

Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused.

On the frigate level, there are 3 tiers of pulse lasers and 2 tiers of beam lasers.

On the cruiser & battleship level, there are 2 tiers of pulse lasers and 3 tiers of beam lasers and basically nobody uses the low tier beam laser (Quad Beam and Dual Heavy Beam).

Not so, I've used dual heavy beams. I think they are an underappreciated weapon, and with Drakes being reeled in closer people might want to reevaluate them. They are ridiculously easy on pg.

But yes quad beams are terrible.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2012-09-18 21:19:08 UTC
The ship upgrades look good, given the extent of the buff though it is hard to judge the impact.

Thorax

I like the four mids although I suspect with its change to affect all weapon systems it will be filled with the soon compulsory tracking disrupter.

Not sure about the tracking bonus, blaster tracking is not bad as medium guns go, the affect against other cruisers is debatable and the bonus is not enough to make a difference against frigates. My experience also has been that it lives or dies by it’s cap, pre hybrid buff I would always cap out early and the cap change of the guns combined with this bonus gave the ship a really good run time even comparable to minmatar ships with capless weapons. Yes it’s cap is buffed but it is not to the level of the current bonus (I think it results in around 20% less capacitor than current when fit with microwarpdrive), getting an extra slot just to fill it with a small cap booster feels a waste. I would also add that there is a general feeling of homogenisation of weapon systems and even ships to an extent and losing unique bonuses is a shame.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#169 - 2012-09-18 21:20:00 UTC
Just noticed the Thorax shield hp nerf even though it will only be used as a shield max dps fit mm... thought that through did you really? for a ship that cant hit far it might as-well be a combat cruiser in disguise a AB at close range is probably its best way of tanking now in a shield fit the others don't need the tank especially the stabber but the thorax will need some.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#170 - 2012-09-18 21:25:04 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Quad Beams were stillborns.


Fixed the OP


Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless.

Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused.

On the frigate level, there are 3 tiers of pulse lasers and 2 tiers of beam lasers.

On the cruiser & battleship level, there are 2 tiers of pulse lasers and 3 tiers of beam lasers and basically nobody uses the low tier beam laser (Quad Beam and Dual Heavy Beam).


Aw but this is where your wrong my friend. Because of the massively less PWG & CPU that Quads use you can fit the ship with a lot of power amplifying module, effectively making the guns better in all ways than focused pulse. Also because of there crazy ROF as is, the bonus the ship gives amplifies it considerably. With the new changes this could be mitigated but I'm really looking forward to seeing how much tank i can squeeze on my omen with these changes.

+1 for me.
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#171 - 2012-09-18 21:29:01 UTC
Onslaughtor wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Quad Beams were stillborns.


Fixed the OP


Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless.

Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused.

On the frigate level, there are 3 tiers of pulse lasers and 2 tiers of beam lasers.

On the cruiser & battleship level, there are 2 tiers of pulse lasers and 3 tiers of beam lasers and basically nobody uses the low tier beam laser (Quad Beam and Dual Heavy Beam).


Aw but this is where your wrong my friend. Because of the massively less PWG & CPU that Quads use you can fit the ship with a lot of power amplifying module, effectively making the guns better in all ways than focused pulse. Also because of there crazy ROF as is, the bonus the ship gives amplifies it considerably. With the new changes this could be mitigated but I'm really looking forward to seeing how much tank i can squeeze on my omen with these changes.

+1 for me.


Quad beams have shorter range than medium beams (small sized variants). And they use aurora which performs poorly in the range it operates.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#172 - 2012-09-18 21:37:30 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Just noticed the Thorax shield hp nerf even though it will only be used as a shield max dps fit mm... thought that through did you really? for a ship that cant hit far it might as-well be a combat cruiser in disguise a AB at close range is probably its best way of tanking now in a shield fit the others don't need the tank especially the stabber but the thorax will need some.


This is to help offset the extra LSE they gave you.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#173 - 2012-09-18 21:37:50 UTC
Hybrid damage and tracking bonus would also be good for a kitey, rail Thorax. By my crude calculations you could get around 530 DPS with 200mm Rails.....
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2012-09-18 21:42:48 UTC
Stabber fulfills the role of "Light Cruiser" well enough in my eyes - likewise making it even more viable with 180s vs fast moving targets. I cannot complain on that one.

But in all respect for balance, I'd rather have the stabber only have 4 High Slots. The reason I say this is because it receiving four Med slots and even four Low slots - that is already more than rewarding next to the falloff bonus and the speed it will have.

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2012-09-18 21:55:27 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Just noticed the Thorax shield hp nerf even though it will only be used as a shield max dps fit mm... thought that through did you really? for a ship that cant hit far it might as-well be a combat cruiser in disguise a AB at close range is probably its best way of tanking now in a shield fit the others don't need the tank especially the stabber but the thorax will need some.


This is to help offset the extra LSE they gave you.

-Liang


I assume you mean a second LSE which is tough to fit without dropping to ions, combined with the ASB and general stat EHP buffs I expect cruiser fights to be longer which in turn may put pressure on your now lower cap level cap mod may still be required in that mid.
Sigras
Conglomo
#176 - 2012-09-18 21:57:39 UTC
Wivabel wrote:
Connall Tara wrote:
wivabel:

[Thorax, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5

this is now... I think we'll be fine with the new layout with 30 extra cpu for MOAR WEBBING! considering the overall preformance the single PG rig isn't exactly a crippling weakness ^_^


it is dumb to need a fitting mod to fit the smallest guns


Does that include putting an XL booster on a cruiser? because thats basically what youre doing here with the 1600 plate. Thats a battleship sized module and youre putting it on a cruiser . . . try that with basically any other cruiser.

The LSE on the other hand is actually a cruiser module given its PG/CPU requirements.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#177 - 2012-09-18 22:56:17 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Quad Beams were stillborns.


Fixed the OP



The funny thing about Quad Beam Lasers is that Medium (Small) Beam lasers do as much DPS almost... Have almost the same range... and use less fitting.

Think about it.

Where I am.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#178 - 2012-09-18 23:18:14 UTC
So with these being attack cruisers and with our lovable attack frigates getting a role bonus, could we possible give a role bonus to these ships in the form of the old thorax MWD cap pool reduction? Just a thought.
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
#179 - 2012-09-18 23:21:33 UTC
Onslaughtor wrote:
So with these being attack cruisers and with our lovable attack frigates getting a role bonus, could we possible give a role bonus to these ships in the form of the old thorax MWD cap pool reduction? Just a thought.


i actually like this idea a lot
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#180 - 2012-09-18 23:34:30 UTC
CCP YOU JUST MADE THE TENGU USELESS AND NOT ON PAR WITH THE REST OF ITS T3 COUNTERPARTS, "-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)" MISSILES ARELEADY HAD LOW DPS AS OF RIGHT KNOW DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME. BATPHONING CSM



Heavy Missiles

-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles

-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we’ll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly