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Crime & Punishment

 
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The reality of the goon freighter ganking in Uedema and neighboring systems.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-09-18 19:08:46 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Andski wrote:
step 1: buy a freighter
step 2: insure it
step 3: wrap something worthless
step 4: autopilot to a hotspot


The payout is higher than the market price + insurance cost?


the difference is a whole lot less than the 1b in taloses that derp into you

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2012-09-18 19:10:43 UTC
God this is the same exact discussion that went on for the Exhumers. Instead of changing their crappy ass behavior exhumer pilots whined until they got it fixed by CCP. Seriously I think now all the PVPers need to whine that "getting instagibbed by concord is unfair" and get that changed too.

FIX YOUR ******** BEHAVIORS instead of expecting CCP to hand you crap on a silver platter.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-09-18 19:11:09 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Andski wrote:
step 1: buy a freighter
step 2: insure it
step 3: wrap something worthless
step 4: autopilot to a hotspot


The payout is higher than the market price + insurance cost?


the difference is a whole lot less than the 1b in taloses that derp into you


So it's to laugh at the ganker loss then. ok. I was not sure if you could also make money out fo it.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#164 - 2012-09-18 19:16:07 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Andski wrote:
step 1: buy a freighter
step 2: insure it
step 3: wrap something worthless
step 4: autopilot to a hotspot


The payout is higher than the market price + insurance cost?

You use a cargo scanner to see what they are hauling on the other side of the gate. T3 hulls and PLEX can make it worth it...

Personally I love hearing about people in freighters that got ganked. I'm REALLY impressed when I hear about one group or another ganking a jump freighter. Lots of EHP there... I think empire gankers are ballsy pirates. It's not easy.

Good job to whoever can pull of ganking HS freighters. PirateBig smile


Did you read what Andski wrote before posting? My question was related to this. It's obviously a way to try to troll gankers by making somethign worthless look more expensive. Wrap 1 trit in a double wrap and go warp to 10 km of the gate. If the payout is higher than freighter market cost + unsurance, you make money doing this and the gankers lose big time. If the payout is not higher, then you both lose but you get to laugh at the wasted ships.


lol... if the payout is higher than the freighter market cost + insurance... I'll just buy freighters and suicide them for profit.
angel 70
angel's70 Corp
#165 - 2012-09-18 19:26:29 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
angel 70 wrote:
what many people forget that there are items which, in the quantities and volumes, are difficult to transport smaller freighters.
there will probably be any ship that the corp buys in jita, might have to pick up yourself.
that's how it looks with the transportation of battleships to jita.


1. Make multiple trips. Unless you can afford to sneeze off the 1.5B ISK cost of a freighter (plus whatever cargo you lost), the extra time between destinations is well worth it.
2. Make the trip in several legs. Travel a few jumps, dock up, reconnoiter, make a few more jumps, dock up, etc. Alternatively, use a scout.
3. If you're carrying minerals or ore in your freighter, don't wrap it. Wrapping it only makes gankers think you're carrying much more valuable cargo.
4. If you must carry valuable cargo that takes up a lot of space, use an Orca to transport them. Yes, you'll still have to make multiple trips, but an Orca is a lot more likely to survive the trip than a freighter.
5. If you *must* use a freighter for high-value goods on long-haul journeys, always take an escort. An EWAR/logi vessel is probably more use than a combat escort to fight gankers, because all the escort has to do is keep you alive until CONCORD arrives.



all the well-intentioned advices:
count you please the loss of a "freighters" minus the sum insured that. you get plus the loss of the cargo hold and the value against what the enemy has losses to minus what can loot his colleagues

one scout brings you nothing when two nanno battleships guarding the incomming-gate, which is wondering who is holding out longer to wait.

the informative one orca longer hold out as I can not verify freighter.

.... take an escort .... you know you have to be in the same corp, it is not enough to be in the same fleet
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2012-09-18 19:26:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:

Maybe you should re-visit the multiple post where a DEV stated ganking in hi-sec was not meant to be profitable. Exploits and flawed mechanics should be addressed.

"someone blew up my velator with 60 PLEXes in it
CCP! you said ganking wasn't supposed to be profitable!!"


:3

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angel 70
angel's70 Corp
#167 - 2012-09-18 19:28:56 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
God this is the same exact discussion that went on for the Exhumers. Instead of changing their crappy ass behavior exhumer pilots whined until they got it fixed by CCP. Seriously I think now all the PVPers need to whine that "getting instagibbed by concord is unfair" and get that changed too.

FIX YOUR ******** BEHAVIORS instead of expecting CCP to hand you crap on a silver platter.


no it is not the same discussion, the asteroid belt, we have no sentry gunns and which one must be pushed away
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#168 - 2012-09-18 19:31:24 UTC

1.) A freighter has 200k EHP, not 100k EHP.... It takes a fairly organized and coordinated group assault to take out a freighter within the concord response timer.

2.) The PvP logoff timer is irrelevant to suicide gankers, as they need to gank a ship within the concord response time, which is less than the 1 minute non-aggressed logoff timer. So, they won't shoot your ship with a velator prior to the start of a gank, because it will bring concord to the grid much, much too early!

3.) CCP should not coddle to the stupid. If you are flying your freighter with 5b in cargo, then you are going to get ganked when they find out. Just because you can carry 900k m3 in a ship, does not mean you should... The risk vs reward for suicide ganking is easy to determine, and every PILOT in highsec, be it in a mission running BS, an iteron V, an exhumer, or a freighter should understand that if another player can gank your ship and collect enough loot from it to profit, they will. As long as unauthorized highsec aggression is allowed, this fundamental concept will NEVER change.... all that changes is the minimum value of modules/cargo necessary for a ganker to make a profit. Rebalancing transport ships and freighters will only increase the threshhold, and while a minor tweaking is reasonable, a significant buff is out of line.

4.) Bumping for the sake of harassment, and not for the sake of profit, is wrong, and can probably be considered an exploit if done for an extended period of time (like for more than 50s)! Less than that, and I can believe you are preventing them from warping while you gather a gank force, more than that and your either too incompetent to deserve the kill, or your just harassing a player, which is a violation of the EULA! Unfortunately, I have no idea how this is enforceable.
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#169 - 2012-09-18 19:38:59 UTC
Why has no one said a word about a Rapier/Huggin escort? Did CCP change that?!

Fleet up with your freighter buddy or alt, web the freighter as soon as he uncloaks and initiates warp. Boom, insta warp!

Idea
TharOkha
0asis Group
#170 - 2012-09-18 19:41:16 UTC
Ravenous Wolf wrote:
I see the focus is on players who carry massive cargos. What about people like me? They are bumping my freighter for the lulz, and doing it to others too. It's pure grief, i cannot warp away, i cannot get to the gate, i cannot do anything except log out from the game and hope to find them gone later.


Bumping freighter in hisec just for fun is grief play. Yes you can petition it

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#171 - 2012-09-18 19:41:21 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

2.) The PvP logoff timer is irrelevant to suicide gankers, as they need to gank a ship within the concord response time, which is less than the 1 minute non-aggressed logoff timer. So, they won't shoot your ship with a velator prior to the start of a gank, because it will bring concord to the grid much, much too early!


It does matter in the case where [redacted]. You know, I'd rather not give that secret away, it's not a common case but it does happen.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#172 - 2012-09-18 19:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

2.) The PvP logoff timer is irrelevant to suicide gankers, as they need to gank a ship within the concord response time, which is less than the 1 minute non-aggressed logoff timer. So, they won't shoot your ship with a velator prior to the start of a gank, because it will bring concord to the grid much, much too early!


It does matter in the case where [redacted]. You know, I'd rather not give that secret away, it's not a common case but it does happen.


It's also not /particularly/ secret. Just needs people to think about it.

Though that pretty much means anyone whining about being ganked in a freighter full of ferrogel won't think of it. Needs a modicum of intelligence.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Fish Alabel
A Big Enough Lever
#173 - 2012-09-18 19:49:58 UTC
BillyBanter wrote:
I studied how this goon corp is ganking so many freighters in Uedema and surrounding systems. They wait for a target, once a freighter is in the system they will bump it to stop it from going anywhere. They will shoot it with an alt character to get the freighter into pvp, this stops the pilot from logging out. Due to how effective this is, there is no escape for the freighter pilot. Once you've jumped into that system in a freighter, you've given them a 100% guaranteed kill on you. Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.

I also watched their characters log in one by one and then suddenly all of them logged off on my contacts at precisely the same moment, looks like his computer crashed :D

Checked their character history, about half of them joined the corp on the same day and the other half were all new characters, created on the same day, earlier this year.

They also use log in traps, to trick people into thinking they're offline, the bumpers wait for a target and when one is found and held in place, the ganking characters are logged in to destroy it.

Perhaps everyone should start doing this, it's a really easy way to earn isk and get epic kills. Plenty of people with multiple accounts and the time to burn.

For a list of their ganking characters just look up Furious Father on a killboard and see his freighter kills and who was part of it.


Solution.
Don't carry billions of isk in a freighter. Only carry so much so you won't be a target.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#174 - 2012-09-18 19:53:58 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

It's also not /particularly/ secret. Just needs people to think about it.

Thought that pretty much means anyone whining about being ganked in a freighter full of ferrogel won't think of it. Needs a modicum of intelligence.


Oh yeah, if you've played the game at all you can figure out a number of different uses. But why should I give away part of the experience of aggression mechanics I've earned through playing station and gate games with the 0rphanage and God Squad?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#175 - 2012-09-18 19:54:36 UTC
angel 70 wrote:

no it is not the same discussion, the asteroid belt, we have no sentry gunns and which one must be pushed away


Just to point out, a good number of these frieghters are being killed off the gates which means no sentries.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#176 - 2012-09-18 19:56:32 UTC
Fish Alabel wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
I studied how this goon corp is ganking so many freighters in Uedema and surrounding systems. They wait for a target, once a freighter is in the system they will bump it to stop it from going anywhere. They will shoot it with an alt character to get the freighter into pvp, this stops the pilot from logging out. Due to how effective this is, there is no escape for the freighter pilot. Once you've jumped into that system in a freighter, you've given them a 100% guaranteed kill on you. Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.

I also watched their characters log in one by one and then suddenly all of them logged off on my contacts at precisely the same moment, looks like his computer crashed :D

Checked their character history, about half of them joined the corp on the same day and the other half were all new characters, created on the same day, earlier this year.

They also use log in traps, to trick people into thinking they're offline, the bumpers wait for a target and when one is found and held in place, the ganking characters are logged in to destroy it.

Perhaps everyone should start doing this, it's a really easy way to earn isk and get epic kills. Plenty of people with multiple accounts and the time to burn.

For a list of their ganking characters just look up Furious Father on a killboard and see his freighter kills and who was part of it.


Solution.
Don't carry billions of isk in a freighter. Only carry so much so you won't be a target.


Better solution, avoid the system(s) we speak of here, at all.
Oh, yeah, it helps tremendously if you're not AFK using your freighter, but meh, no one listens to that so why do I even bother...
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#177 - 2012-09-18 20:01:37 UTC
Well you could make sure to fit your freighter's module slots with tank fittings... oh wait it doesn't have any module slots.

Hmm, I think I see the real problem here.

I'm being serious. If you fly an industrial ship you have options. If you want to take more risk you can fit it with cargo expansion modules & rigs. If you want to haul something valuable you can (sort of) tank it up a bit and make it harder to gank. Of course nothing is ever 100% gank proof, but you can make the potential ganker have to recalculate your EHP and force them to sacrifice more disposable alt ships to the job, which may tip the scales over to "not worth it" - which is your only real security but a form of security none-the-less. If all else fails you can just jump into a covert ops hauler and tell the gankers to suck it.

In other words, with industrial ships there are player options that let them decide if they want more cargo or more safety. Freighters, on the other hand, only come in four effectively identical flavors; all of them unarmed, no weapons, no drones, and no module slots or even rig slots in which to change anything.

If CCP were to make freighters into actual ships and not just flying cargo canisters this problem might change, or at least it would become a problem where you would have more of a leg to stand on when people cry about being ganked (i.e. "Should have fitted it with tank instead of sacrificing EHP for cargo, then.") This lack of options makes freighters easy to gank in another way, too, being as without any potential for variation once you know how many disposable alts it takes to pop one open the first time you now have the winning formula that will work every time without exception. This means that the logistics of ganking a freighter can be set in stone and no tactics or variations are required to do it.

Conclusion: Make freighters real.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#178 - 2012-09-18 20:04:35 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.


Which is a bannable offence if they're recycling them.


What? Deleting a character is bannable?



They did NOT say that. Learn how to argue properly.

They said RECYCLING is bannable.

Roll

Big smile "Learn how to argue properly." That's excellent-- covers a lot in a few words. Saving for future use, if you don't mind.
PI Maker
Doomheim
#179 - 2012-09-18 20:05:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Just to point out, a good number of these frieghters are being killed off the gates which means no sentries

and not near a station either, right? or the station guns would get you. i think.
PI Maker
Doomheim
#180 - 2012-09-18 20:06:12 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Big smile "Learn how to argue properly." That's excellent-- covers a lot in a few words. Saving for future use, if you don't mind.

I'd rather argue correctly than properly.